My dad and I have raised Simmetal cattle for the past several years. We have some Sim mixes but the past several years we have used a full blooded Sim bull. Now the question I have is how many of you use a Sim bull? The reason why I asked is the Sim bull I took to the market two weeks ago had mostly black and white face calves this year. His son that I kept from him last year threw red calves and I am wondering how that happened. We dont have a red cow in the field. His daddy the one we sold never threw one red calf. I am not familiar with the genetics. The calves are nice calves but the wrong color for these parts. We are going to take him to the sell this weekend we dont need the red calves.
Sim question
- Thread starter syork
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I put a black simi bull on black limi angus cows and got 75% red calves. The limi put the red gene in the cows and black simi bulls most often have the red gene as well. Put the red genes together and you get red calves.
Had a limi producer north of us buy a registered angus bull from me. He asked me 3 times if it was a "fullblood" angus because "I gotta have black calves and the only way to make sure that happens is with a fullblood angus bull". Now, that statement's not entirely true anymore because you can get homozygous this and heterozygous that with simi and limi bulls, but the point is, the only way to not get red calves is to make sure either the cow or the bull do not carry the red gene and that can be hard to do unless you have fullblood angus.
Had a limi producer north of us buy a registered angus bull from me. He asked me 3 times if it was a "fullblood" angus because "I gotta have black calves and the only way to make sure that happens is with a fullblood angus bull". Now, that statement's not entirely true anymore because you can get homozygous this and heterozygous that with simi and limi bulls, but the point is, the only way to not get red calves is to make sure either the cow or the bull do not carry the red gene and that can be hard to do unless you have fullblood angus.
randiliana
Well-known member
Obviously your bull and some of your cows are carrying the red gene. The red gene is recessive, so you don't know it is there until you have a cow AND a bull that carry it, AND they both pass it on to the calf.
syork":2iwmdsgk said:
NO....Fullblood Simmentals are Red & White. The black Simmentals are a result of crossing black cattle to red & white simmetals to get a black animal.
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/cattle/simmental/
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Not so hard to find Homo Black Limi bulls i am sure if you look you can find Homo black Simmi bulls. But Jovid is right a fullblood Simmi would be red and white, a Fullbood Limousin will be red.
Around here the red calves dont bring nothing on the market. You might as well give them away. The black calves bring way more or the black baldies and the black model face. Next year when the spring calves hit the ground we are gonna buy a reg. black angus bull. The bull is a nice looking bull but he is showing signs of an attitude problem. He ever show signs of running me hes getting an attitude adjustment. :nod: Hes going to the market this weekend. The dad to this bull went two weeks ago. He got to be mean as heck you couldnt git into the field with him. The final straw was when a storm blew a tree on the fence he got out and i went to put him back in and he turned around and ran me around the truck till i hopped in the back. He got me behind the leg.
Hes hamburger in some restaurant now. Just about all of my cows are black model face or solid black. I have some char mixes not many. I am gonna put some pictures on here next month when I get my new camera of a few heifers im thinking about keeping.
Hes hamburger in some restaurant now. Just about all of my cows are black model face or solid black. I have some char mixes not many. I am gonna put some pictures on here next month when I get my new camera of a few heifers im thinking about keeping.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
I have never had any trouble selling a good red calf. Never do i take a hit on them. People i sell to no my cattle and always pay well for them. They are always weaned and vacinated and bunk broke.
syork":2fbfjrv0 said:
Not tryin to be a smart a$$ but after saying that you sold the older bull for a bad disposition, and now his son is showing the same thing why would you want to keep any of the daughters, and put more of that blood in your herd to deal with for years to come. Blood shows; there is no way to get around that, those red calves are livin proof that what's in there will come out sooner or later.
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
I wonder where that Sim bull got the bad attitude. The old red and white fullblood Sims had pretty good dispositions i think.
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
yep the dad was homozygous for the black color .. you broke up the monotony when you introduced the red gene in his son through the momas side. ive had a homo black simm bull he bred consistant black
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
well sure thats reason they call em homozygous..TNMasterBeefProducer":3p83jkr3 said:
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
You are right Dun i never saw Signal, but i have saw a few of them old Simmi bulls and don't remember any that was ill tempered. Not saying there wasn't some, just all and all them old Simmis were pretty tame.
randiliana
Well-known member
You guys have your homozygous and heterozygous mixed up. Homozygous black means that the bull will only throw the black gene, hence all of his calves would be black. Heterozygous black means that the bull carries 1 black gene and 1 red gene, he can throw either black or red calves, depending on the cow he is bred to.
You can have a heterozygous bull after 100 generations of breeding black to black. Every time you breed a heterozygous black animal you have a 50% chance of that animal passing on the red gene.
E - Black gene
e - Red gene
Ee x EE = 50% Ee and 50% EE
Ee x Ee = 50% Ee, 25% EE and 25% ee
Ee x ee = 50% Ee and 50% ee
EE - Homozygous black
Ee - Heterozygous black
ee - Red (homozygous)
You can have a heterozygous bull after 100 generations of breeding black to black. Every time you breed a heterozygous black animal you have a 50% chance of that animal passing on the red gene.
E - Black gene
e - Red gene
Ee x EE = 50% Ee and 50% EE
Ee x Ee = 50% Ee, 25% EE and 25% ee
Ee x ee = 50% Ee and 50% ee
EE - Homozygous black
Ee - Heterozygous black
ee - Red (homozygous)
ALACOWMAN
Well-known member
not me did you read my post?randiliana":rbtg7i5c said:
Red Bull Breeder
Well-known member
Used to have a couple of Simmi breeders around here one of them don't breed the Simmis anymore. the other turned his black and screwed them up till you can't even tell what they are. But the ones they used to raise were pretty gentle.
randiliana
Well-known member
Well, darn, it appears that I just can't read right 
. Must have been tired that night. Sorry about that guys......
. Must have been tired that night. Sorry about that guys......
