Sick Calf

[Byrdy]

Hi – I have a sick 10 month old Hereford/ angus calf we suspect of having bloat and acidosis. He went down yesterday morning, he was completely out of it when I found him, in fact I thought he was dead. All I could think was bloat. I gave him some bloat release and that sort of pulled him out of it enough for me to get him up and moving. He is also drooling non stop. The vet was out yesterday afternoon and said she heard rumen contractions. She has given him antibiotics Naxcel and banamine and we are waiting on blood work to come back.
I have watched him this morning and he seems uncoordinated and not there mentally and seems like he wants to drink but can't. He puts his mouth in the bucket but can't seem to suck the water. He is also still drooling alot. Do you usually see the neurological symptoms in acute acidosis? He is completely off food too. He was tubed yesterday to get some fluids and mineral oil down him. He is dehydrated, his poop looks like the horses. I have given him electrolytes with a syringe this morning. He will only eat if I put the grass into his mouth.
Talked to the vet, now she thinks it may be lesterosis? Anybody have any idea what this may be? Is it contageous to horses? Won't know for sure until the blood tests come back.

Thanks in advance.

 

[dun]

Do a search on these boards for listeriosis, it's been hashed over on here a number of times in the past

 

[larryshoat]

What was his temp ? Are his sides puffed up ?

Larry

 

[milkmaid]

Why were you suspecting acidosis? Yes, in severe systemic acidosis you will see neurological problems, but it's mainly poor coordination (very weak back end) and they're usually willing to drink, although uninterested in food.

Rabies might be a possibility too.

 

[Byrdy]

The blood tests came back finally. The white blood cell count was a little low, but everything else seemed okay so now I guess we are back to the viral infection and not bacterial - so listeriosis has been ruled out. The vet is now back to the possiblity that it is acidosis after all. We came to this conclusion at first because I was increasing his grain too fast it seems. He responded to the bloat release almost right away. I don't know too much about the acidosis either. Does anyone have any good resources to read? He is drinking but not eating unless I actually put the grass in his mouth for him then he will chew and eat it. He moos a lot and is kind of uncoordinated I guess you can say. I have him on Probios twice a day and the antibiotics. When will he start eating on his own again? It's not fun to hand feed a steer but I'll do what I have to.

 

[milkmaid]

Generally with acidosis you'll see really runny manure, and it smells BAD and sweet. Hard to miss. Does that describe him?

Run a search on google for acidosis and you'll have all the reading material you want.

 

[Byrdy]

He was a little runny before this all happened. Monday morning came out to feed and he was just laying there as if in a coma. Gave him some bloat release and within 5 minutes started releasing gas and pooping normal looking poops. What able to get him up and walk him around until the vet came. She tubed him with baking soda and mineral oil, shot him up with Naxcel and Banamine. Now his poops look like the horses poops if he poops at all. I was just reading material on acidosis, but I guess what has me stumped is the wierd way he is acting, kind of drunk I guess you could say. How long are they usually off feed? Should I continue to hand feed him? Continue with the antibiotics and probiotics? Will he ever be back to normal? Am I worring too much? Sorry just a worried mama here!

 

[Byrdy]

No weeds here just a whole lot of dirt. The only thing growing in the turn out is creosote bush and he hadn't been turned out for a week or so. His blood work came back with low white blood cell count and thats about it. Vet seems to think its acidosis. When will these symptoms subside do you think? Anybody out there with a bad case of acidosis that survived? Its been three days, how much longer will this last or will he be out of the woods?

Thanks :cry2:

 

[milkmaid]

I've seen 'em survive when they shouldn't have by all accounts. I'm not talking about just down and bloated, I'm talking about down, non-responsive, won't move, time to get out the chains and the tractor to haul them off.

Need to keep putting baking soda (sodium bicarb) into that calf as well as probiotics and any type of rumen stimulant you can. Antibiotics really aren't going to help too much in this case because you NEED to repopulate that calf's rumen with good bacteria. Antibiotics kill off everything. I understand the reasoning behind using them, but it's rather counter productive in this case. Sodium bicarb is necessary because you have to get that pH level in the rumen back to normal before he's going to feel good enough to eat. Symptoms won't go away until you solve the problem.

Also, if, as the bloodwork indicates, he doesn't have a bacterial infection but may have a viral infection, antibiotics aren't going to do a bit of good for that.

You will see a lot of weakness that does mimic drunkeness in acidosis cases...

...I'm still not completely convinced that you are dealing with acidosis though.

 

[Byrdy]

What is the difference in severe systemic acidosis and acute acidosis?

 

[Byrdy]

Milkmaid - The way you described "talking about down, non-responsive, won't move, time to get out the chains and the tractor to haul them off" is exactly how I would describe the way he was when I found him! I was in complete shock! How can I get the sodium bicarb into him with out tubing him? Could I mix it in with his bucket of water or squit it down his throat with a huge syringe? I suppose I could make it a real thick paste and dip the grass I'm hand feeding him in it? The animals that you found as described above made it through without any brain issues?

Baxter78 - I don't think his body is shutting down (at least I hope not). He has improved since Monday when the vet was here, his drooling is not as bad, he is drinking (in fact he is obsessed with his water which is wierd, dunks his whole head to his eyes in it :???: ) , and he'll eat when I put the grass in his mouth. I just wanted to get a feel on how long this is going to last from someone with experience in this sort of crisis.
Any help is wonderful, thanks!

 

[Byrdy]

Baxter78 - I would have if he hadn't pulled out of it like he did. I had even called the animal waste guy to see what his schedule was like. I guess I'm attached at this point although he was headed to the freezer come next summer. I guess if I end up with a special needed steer it will give me something to do when the kids move out.

 

[milkmaid]

You can mix the sodium bicarb in water and tube him/use a syringe. Whenever I've had to treat over here, I use standard empty gel-caps and fill them with ~1oz of sodium bicarb. Or they might hold 2oz. I don't remember. Anyway, that'd be easier if you can find them (try the vet clinic or local feed store).

JMO... his condition will last until the problem is either fixed, or he gets worse and dies. Can't continue indefinitely like this, it's not healthy. At the same time, it's hard for them to pull out of this on their own without help.

No reason to shoot the calf, BTW.

 

[Byrdy]

Don't worry we're not going to shoot him anytime soon! I won't give up until I know I've done everything I can to save him. The gel caps your talking about - are they something that is used for animals or people capsules? I'll be on the phone in the morning looking for them as it sounds like the easiest way to get the sodium bicarb down him. How much each time and how much per day should I give him. He is about 500-600 pounds.

 

[milkmaid]

Animal (specifically bovine) gel caps. They're huge.

I think you're looking at 1-2oz twice a day that you need to put down him, find out what a packed capsule weighs and go from there. Remember to put probiotics down him at the same time too.

 

[Byrdy]

Okay I found size 000 which I'm told is the largest gel cap made. I've filled them with sodium bicarb and now I'm going to attempt to put 20 of them down his throat. Should be interesting! The way I've measured it out is that 10 capsules hold 1 ounce, so that is 20 capsules twice a day. Do you think I should continue feeding him by hand (I can get about a 1/4 of a flake down him a day) or just let his stomach adjust to the bicarb and maybe he'll start to eat on his own when he feels better? Anyone know how long a calf can go without food?

Thanks for the help

 

[Howdyjabo]

You do know about balling guns?
You won't have much luck getting a gel cap down without one

 

[Byrdy]

Actually he is extremely tame. I just put them on the back of his tongue and down they go. I know what a balling gun is but I don't have one. Never had a need for one, but will diffently put it on my list to pick up at the vet supply.