Selection criteria

[southernultrablack]

I asked this question already but it was buried in another thread. Thought I would start a new topic. How much weight do you place on femininity when picking your cows and heifers? I think a bull should look like a bull, but I don't put as much weight on femininity on heifers and cows.
Is it more important in the Seedstock sector as opposed to the commercial cattle sector?

 

[angus9259]

I don't much watch it. Not saying that's right.

 

[WalnutCrest]

Shorter breeding interval from first to second calf seems be positively correlated with hormonal balance and fertility. Those that need back the quickest should stay around the longest.

 

[wbvs58]

What do you define as femininity, is it how a cow performs or are you bringing in humane ideals and select on visual appearance like pleasant looking body, nice boobs? Does this correlate to good performance?

Ken

 

[southernultrablack]

What do you define as femininity, is it how a cow performs or are you bringing in humane ideals and select on visual appearance like pleasant looking body, nice boobs? Does this correlate to good performance?

Ken

Outward appearance,not talking udder quality. Bulls should look masculine and have good muscle. Should heifers and cows be more refined "girly looking". Does it correlate to better maternal performance- I don't know.

 

[Nesikep]

I don't think my selection criteria for "feminine" features encompasses all aspects, but "child bearing hips" is one important one, and I do love a good set of teats. Now for a fine neck, etc, it's certainly not going to be a dealbreaker one way or the other, I find I still have plenty of far more critical functional traits to cull and select for (running gear, etc) to bother much with them yet. I've had some not-so-feminine looking heifers turn out into great cows, so that alone doesn't guarantee or preclude performance

One of my not-so-feminine heifers.. Her steer last year may well have been the nicest steer ever raised on this place

 

[ez14]

Im going to start this off with leting you know this is not first hand experience but only what i've read and believe

A masculine bull should produce masculine bull calves and feminine heifer calves as those are signs of hormonal balance which should help with fertility

 

[js1234]

Of course. Cows need to look like cows and bulls need to look like bulls.

 

[Supa Dexta]

I like em heavy set - thick arse, wide down their back, and wide stance between the front legs - which is opposite of how I like my women..

No horns, good attitude, good teats, and their mother has to be decent. That IS how I like my women.

BW needs to be in check also.

 

[Ebenezer]

It's football season. From a long-g-g way off I want to be able to tell the difference in a football player and a cheerleader. How can I do that? Many have mentioned: hormonal balance and secondary sex traits and characteristics.

American beef industry: the poster child is the high grading, fast growing feedlot steer. We "test" bulls for decades to grow like and grade like a feedlot steer. We like a good thick heifer and cow to look like a feedlot steer. Yet, today we can stack decades of EPD data and still have low accuracy of carcass traits and a wide range of carcass quality.

We have functional issues: bulls that pass the BSE yet lack libido, foot and leg issues, udder and teat problems, low fertility in heifers and cows. This is un-American: what if we wanted to know how a bull would throw terminal traits and we feed tested only half sib steers or sons that were steers to get results? What if we checked the bulls we kept back for libido, feet and legs and daughter fertility without forcing the bulls to eat like pigs? What if we could look at secondary sexual characteristics in females and read "signs" of proper hormones or at least read the bad signs to cull? Then run the heifers on a short breeding season to see if our selections are improving things.

That is somewhat what Dr. Jan Bonsma did years ago. Not saying that we have to replicate him or even have the eye and intellect to do what he did but he could tell the differences in football players and cheerleaders and knew why.

 

[WRFarms]

Outward appearance (phenotype) is an expression of genetic and environmental factors and should be taken seriously by everyone in the cattle business. The appearance of a cow can be a strong indicator of fertility. In general, an absence of masculinity in heifers and cows suggests fertility. No coarse curly hair, no short/humped neck, no broad shoulders, etc. Those traits are tied to androgen (male hormones) and tend to present in females with incorrect hormonal balance. Cows lacking masculine traits will see more success with AI, earlier sexual maturity, and an overall shorter interval between calving and breeding back. That said, it's far easier and more effective to select for bulls with good fertility. Bulls that exhibit healthy masculine traits tend to produce fertile, feminine daughters.

As an aside, fertility is only partly heritable. In order to significantly improve or worsen fertility, it takes consistent breeding choices and multiple generations. Failure to select for fertility will only reveal itself in future generations and will be extremely challenging to correct. This is different from traits like birth weights and frame sizes, which can change significantly over a couple of generations.

Jan Bonsma has rightly been mentioned, but for more information I would recommend James Drayson and Gearld Fry, who have excellent books on the subject.

 

[WalnutCrest]

As does Johann Zietsman.

 

[ANAZAZI]

The difference is Zietsmann is areal world man, while Fry is a hopeless theorethic. Bonsma is good. Drayson I can not get any books from.

 

[Ky hills]

I think that bulls should look like bulls and cows should look like cows. I have noticed that a lot of bulls nowadays don't really look very masculine. I used to attribute that look in bull calves to being later maturing. I hear some folks that don't like any "leather" on bulls or heifers, but I really don't mind that much depending on the breed.