Seeking advice on bermuda vs bahia in a new pasture.

[hammer1995]

First, let me introduce myself. I'm a longtime lurker here and have read many of the threads on here. I have about 40 acres in southwest MIssissippi I am reconverting back into pasture. It was pasture/garden about 25 years ago and gradually grew into a pine thicket. I had it cleared in spring 2008 and want to sprig bermuda or plant bahia in spring 2010. The soil is mostly clay and the pH averages 5.5. Drought can be a concern.

I am trying to decide whether to go with bermuda or bahia as my permanent pasture grass. I am going to put a few cattle and horses on the property. At some point in the distant future (10 years), I plan to move back and start raising more stock. I also want to have someone bale some square bales for my horses. Lime runs about $50 a ton here, so I believe bermuda will cost me a lot more in input costs. But I am also concerned about the quality of forage. I want clean grass and, at least as I understand it, there are no good herbicides to manage weeds in bahia like there are for bermuda. I understand that clipping bahia will help control the weeds, but I don't live on the property (my mother does) and I only get up there 2-3 weekends a month.

I can get Sumrall 007 bermuda or Tifton 85 sprigged for about $100 and acre. I'm not sure what it costs for Pensacola bahia, but it looks like Tifton 9 bahia will run about the same per acre for seed.

So, I've given all the facts I know to give at the moment and I'd really like to get some advice from folks who know a thing or two about forage.

 

[novatech]

I have no clue what grass would work better in your area.
As far as herbicide goes just about anything used on bermuda will work for weeds in bahia. I have seen Grazon P+D kill some bahia when spot spraying with a strong mix. With the normal application rate to kill weeds the bahia was not affected.
If it were me I would go with Tifton 85. It will cost a bit more to sprig but for a long term hay field the cost is spread over a lot of years. Well that's for my area.
First rule of any business. What do your potential customers want to buy?

Welcome to the boards.

 

[HerefordSire]

What lattitude are you?

Lime sounds too high where you are at. You should be able to buy it for less than $30 per ton.

 

[BC]

What lattitude are you?

Lime sounds too high where you are at. You should be able to buy it for less than $30 per ton.

Lime costs about $42/acre spread here in Northeast Texas. Lime costs about $5 ton at the quarry and the rest is transportation and spreading costs.

 

[grannysoo]

I would lean towards bermuda, especially since you're planning on bailing some. Both have their good and bad points, however the bahia can get tough pretty quick.

Bahia is a great grass to graze as long as it doesn't get mature. Grows fast, can't kill it if you tried, and an all around good grass for grazing. However, if you let it mature enough to have a good volume to bale, I think you'll find that you loose a lot of nutritional value pretty fast.

I'm not saying that the cows won't eat mature bahia, they just prefer not to. You can get a good growth of bermuda and maintain a good protein level and plenty of volume.

 

[hammer1995]

Latitude is 31.456. I'd really like to have the bermuda, I just don't want to go to the poorhouse buying lime.

 

[grannysoo]

Latitude is 31.456. I'd really like to have the bermuda, I just don't want to go to the poorhouse buying lime.

Lime is a cheap investment when it's needed. Spend a little more money, potentially have a lot better quality of grass.

 

[novatech]

Latitude is 31.456. I'd really like to have the bermuda, I just don't want to go to the poorhouse buying lime.

Like a lot of other folks I canot afford some of the things I want. Tif 85 was one of them. So what I did is took cuttings from the edges of others hay fields, with their permission. I bought a gasoline hedge trimmer to cut the cuttings. Then I started a nursery. I bought a single row sprigg planter and tore it up because the cuttings were to long. It was designed for spriggs not cuttings. I have resorted to disking in. Actually faster anyway. I cut my cutings in the nursery with an old cycle mower.
Where their is a will there is a way. It takes a little more time but I am getting the job done.
I just leased a Tiff. 85 hay field so now I will get the cuttings to finish what I started by bailing up fresh cuttings.
You could do the same by simply buying a bale of fresh cut hay, bailed the day it was cut.
By the way I agree with Granysoo. Get the soil right first, then plant.

 

[HerefordSire]

What lattitude are you?

Lime sounds too high where you are at. You should be able to buy it for less than $30 per ton.

Lime costs about $42/acre spread here in Northeast Texas. Lime costs about $5 ton at the quarry and the rest is transportation and spreading costs.

The SE corner of Oklahoma has some lime quaries. Several years ago it was in the low 20s per ton. You spread though.

 

[HerefordSire]

Latitude is 31.456. I'd really like to have the bermuda, I just don't want to go to the poorhouse buying lime.

You are a tad more south than I am and about the same type of moisture. I say Bermuda if you are willing to fertilize. Check out Ozarka if you are going to sprig and it should produce more than Tifton. Otherwise, Cheyenne will do it. It is a tad too late to apply lime unless you are on a plateau.

 

[jj216]

Your ground seems about the same as mine. Bahia will do fine with little care. Sometimes you should just take what the good lord gives ya. With the added expenses and risk of drought I've never had the stomach to sprigg bermuda in my dirt with no way to irrigate. I guess its something you'll have to weigh out in your own mind as far as risk -reward epecially with very limited time youll be spending on the place. To me there is nothing wrong with"poor mans coastal. JMO good luck.

 

[farmwriter]

Any reason not to consider some of both? They're mixed in most of our pastures. Bermuda is better grass, but can't beat bahia for it's tolerance and vigor. When the bahia starts 'taking over' too much, disking deep helps reduce the bahia and stimulate the bermuda.

 

[xbred]

i've got a farm in sw ms. pm me if you want to and i'll give you the name and # of a good ag advisor (county agent)...I've got mostly bermuda, clover is getting to be a hot item, but it may require lime..bahaia is hardy, but gets tough and lags in nutrition, but if your not there to clip and spray, bermuda can be hard to keep..

 

[houstoncutter]

I think down here in the south I will stick to bahia....for one big reason......the hogs dont seem to like it...........Those critters are starting to be worse than fire ants

 

[ColemanCreekCattle]

I am not an advocate of bahia grass because on a nutritional standpoint Bahia just won't perform like Bermuda will. Also a pH of 5.5 is low --you should be at leat 5.8 minimum for bahia and especially bermuda. I prefer pH to be around 6.2+. Liming at a rate of 1 ton per acres per year will elevate you pH by 0.1 so you are looking at several years of liming to meet an average pH for bermuda. Don't get me wrong Bahia has its place, I guess, but to me it is a weed. For Hay production, I believe you will like Bermuda better and so will your livestock.
I would follow the recommendations of your extension specialist or ask a respected cattleman in your area who likes Bahia and one who likes Bermuda-- then decide.

First, let me introduce myself. I'm a longtime lurker here and have read many of the threads on here. I have about 40 acres in southwest MIssissippi I am reconverting back into pasture. It was pasture/garden about 25 years ago and gradually grew into a pine thicket. I had it cleared in spring 2008 and want to sprig bermuda or plant bahia in spring 2010. The soil is mostly clay and the pH averages 5.5. Drought can be a concern.

I am trying to decide whether to go with bermuda or bahia as my permanent pasture grass. I am going to put a few cattle and horses on the property. At some point in the distant future (10 years), I plan to move back and start raising more stock. I also want to have someone bale some square bales for my horses. Lime runs about $50 a ton here, so I believe bermuda will cost me a lot more in input costs. But I am also concerned about the quality of forage. I want clean grass and, at least as I understand it, there are no good herbicides to manage weeds in bahia like there are for bermuda. I understand that clipping bahia will help control the weeds, but I don't live on the property (my mother does) and I only get up there 2-3 weekends a month.

I can get Sumrall 007 bermuda or Tifton 85 sprigged for about $100 and acre. I'm not sure what it costs for Pensacola bahia, but it looks like Tifton 9 bahia will run about the same per acre for seed.

So, I've given all the facts I know to give at the moment and I'd really like to get some advice from folks who know a thing or two about forage.

 

[farmwriter]

Don't get me wrong Bahia has its place, I guess, but to me it is a weed. For Hay production, I believe you will like Bermuda better and so will your livestock.

No question bermuda is a higher quality grass or hay, but it is less hardy, which is why I don't think a mixture of the two is a bad idea. When times get dry, like we all know they will at some point, the bahia is still there long after the burmuda is scorched. When it's all that will grow, it becomes a much more attractive option.
I agree that a chat with a knowledgable extension specialist should be helpful.

 

[novatech]

Don't get me wrong Bahia has its place, I guess, but to me it is a weed. For Hay production, I believe you will like Bermuda better and so will your livestock.

No question Bermuda is a higher quality grass or hay, but it is less hardy, which is why I don't think a mixture of the two is a bad idea. When times get dry, like we all know they will at some point, the Bahia is still there long after the bermuda is scorched. When it's all that will grow, it becomes a much more attractive option.
I agree that a chat with a knowledgeable extension specialist should be helpful.

May be a difference in location but my Tifton 85 stood out above all other grasses during the drought. The Bahia was nothing but brown stubble. Most died but when the rains came the Bahia seed sprouted and came back with a vengeance. The first hay cut in this area after the rains was the hybrid bermudas and Johnsongrass.

 

[farmwriter]

That's intersting, Nova. Our soil is real sandy and fairly acidic, so maybe that has something to do with it too.

 

[BC]

Interesting comments. My experience is that bahia is the first to green up in the spring and the first to brown out in dry times. It is not as drought tolerant as coastal or Tifton 85, but about the same as common bermuda. Cows will walk through bermuda to eat bahia that is young and tender. Bahia does not make the tonnage or as high of quality hay as bermuda. Bahia will grow on red clay hills that bermuda has a hard time on and bermuda will out perform it on deep sugar sands.

 

[StacyB]

Lime costs about $42/acre spread here in Northeast Texas. Lime costs about $5 ton at the quarry and the rest is transportation and spreading costs.

The SE corner of Oklahoma has some lime quaries. Several years ago it was in the low 20s per ton. You spread though.[/quote]

Hello, I need to get two tons of lime spread asap. I'm in Northeast Texas .. between Paris & Powderly. I was looking at one of the supply stores here selling it for $5 per 50# bag. I don't know where to buy it by the ton .. Please let me know who to contact to get two tons lime spread. Thanks!