secondary masculinity

[LFF]

I not sure how to approach this subject concerning bull selection , however I'm going to open this topic for discussion beginning with a few questions. I've read Jan Bosnana and Gearld Frys view points on selection and am interested in other thoughts.

1) Do bull calves that show large amounts of seconday masculinity at 2 to 6 months produce better semen quality at 12-14 months of age?

My personal experience says no. I've had yearling bulls that were semen quality tested and the bulls with larger scrotal measurements normally had better semen quality than more mascline looking bulls with smaller scrotals. I'm not talking about yearling bulls that look like steers, but bulls that exhibit less masclinity at a very young age or bulls that seem to take 2 to 3 years of age to really look masculine.


2) Does early secondary masculinity increase ribeye size of yearlings?

I would think so.


3) How much ribeye size is due to testostrone that is removed upon casturation?

Early cutting or banding should affect ribeye size greatly, helps explain why so many use a growth implant.


4) Do high secondary masculine bulls have less marbling?

I think that this depends upon when they begin to show masculinity. I think that they should begin to show strong secondary masculinity by 10-12 months or age.


5) Are bulls that show strong secondary masculinity at a very early age often prone to be hard calving bulls?

I believe that they are.



Sorry about the spelling. I wish there was a spell check program attacted to the boards.

 

[JHH]

155 views and nobody want to talk about it?

I not sure how to approach this subject concerning bull selection , however I'm going to open this topic for discussion beginning with a few questions. I've read Jan Bosnana and Gearld Frys view points on selection and am interested in other thoughts.

1) Do bull calves that show large amounts of seconday masculinity at 2 to 6 months produce better semen quality at 12-14 months of age?

My personal experience says no. I've had yearling bulls that were semen quality tested and the bulls with larger scrotal measurements normally had better semen quality than more mascline looking bulls with smaller scrotals. I'm not talking about yearling bulls that look like steers, but bulls that exhibit less masclinity at a very young age or bulls that seem to take 2 to 3 years of age to really look masculine.


2) Does early secondary masculinity increase ribeye size of yearlings?

I would think so.


3) How much ribeye size is due to testostrone that is removed upon casturation?

Early cutting or banding should affect ribeye size greatly, helps explain why so many use a growth implant.


4) Do high secondary masculine bulls have less marbling?

I think that this depends upon when they begin to show masculinity. I think that they should begin to show strong secondary masculinity by 10-12 months or age.


5) Are bulls that show strong secondary masculinity at a very early age often prone to be hard calving bulls?

I don't know about this one. Just because he looks like that at an early age doesn't mean he will calve hard in my opinion. I believe some will and some wont.

I believe that they are.



Sorry about the spelling. I wish there was a spell check program attacted to the boards.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

LFF-

Your questions create a plethora of possible responses, and I am not certain whether ANY of the answers would be discerning or foresighted enough to incite or arouse much of deep discussion on the subject(s). Naturally, the most obvious determining factors concerning both Primary AND Secondary sex trait characteristic developments would be the particular "Breed" being considered, and the Genetic EPD's and DNA markers relating to the ancestry of the individuals under consideration.

Concerning early secondary masculinity development characteristics, the physiological factors involved in those developmental traits can be strongly influenced by the environment, surroundings, and management practices of the particular farm or ranch at which the animal(s) are located. Calves dropped and raised in severe climate temperatures, either very cold or very hot, will respond characteristically to the climate according to their breed traits, and how they are handled, fed, and whether their dams were developed and had sufficient and adequate nutrition prior to and during the gestation period. Masculinity characteristics follow the same agendas as other secondary traits.

I believe that every calf, just as every human being, is an individual, and as such will respond to stimuli as a determinant for the factors being discussed here. I feel that it is more important to concentrate on the basic factors of Bull Selection protocols (Phenotype, Genotype and Functional Traits, legs, feet, skeletal structure, docility etc.) than to get overly engrossed in complex minutiae to the extent that we may apply more importance to lesser factors than is desirable. This is not to say that your subject matter is not discriminative or judicious, because it is thought provoking and should be a point of consideration in detailed seedstock selection.

In delving into detailed examination of pin-point specifics though, I fear that we can get confused to the point of failing to see the Forest for the Trees!

Just my Opinion.

DOC HARRIS

 

[Chuckie]

JHH,
155 views means that some of us don't know exactly what LFF is talking about! So, we are watching to see if someone will come on and tell us!!!

So, for the sake of those that want to learn what is going on here, I will throw myself in front of the bus, and ask these questions! :shock:
Some of it I will just throw in some useless tidbits.

pecker bait

1) Please explain what primary and secondary masculine traits are, or how are they different.

On the question about the scrotal size vs. the masculine traits, I posted a question about the scrotal size having any effect on their herd. Small testicles ( lower sperm count-less fertile) Large testicles ( higher sperm count-higher fertility) I was seeing a lot of yearling bulls with early maturity, that had low scrotal numbers.

The testostrone creates the neck and muscles on the bull. But the majority of the yearling bulls that had the largest necks, were small framed bulls. The early maturing bulls were more likely to have lower scrotal numbers. The somewhat larger, thicker, framed bulls, were not as bulked up, but carried more weight, had higher numbers on scrotal. This was what I noticed on the bulls I was checking out.

2.) I definitely think you lose size and weight of the bull calf if you casterate him early. That is a natural way of adding red meat to his carcass. I would think that the size of the ribeye would be decreased as well.

3.) I do think casteration would hurt the size of the ribeye, but I do not know what the percentage of loss that might occur.

Chuckie

 

[vclavin]

On question #4, Ultrasound tech said that the testosterone has a negative affect on marbling. I have 1 bull that is true for and 1 it is not - both are herd mates.
Valerie

 

[ANAZAZI]

On question #4, Ultrasound tech said that the testosterone has a negative affect on marbling. I have 1 bull that is true for and 1 it is not - both are herd mates.
Valerie

Although testosteron reduces marbling, both testosteron and marbling vary between bulls. This means that a highly masculine bull can be marbled as well as a less masculine bull can have low marbling, because of his different genetics. As an average however; more masculine bulls show less marbling. The trait is easier to measure in steers and females. This is a good reason to check out the ancestry and/or progeny of a bull for marbling.