School me on over seeding pasture

[TNtrout23]

So I've had a few threads on the site but just now generalizing each topic to each thread. So now let's go over seeding.

I have 6 cows and a bull on 14-15 acres. There are a few small wooded patches for shade. So I fertilized last year triple 19 then realized a soil test would be the best thing for me to do so I did it and fertilized 2 weeks ago according to my results. Was low in P and K no lime needed. I've grew up are cattle my whole life but it was just a hobby for my grandfather. Now I'm getting into it myself with a small herd until I can get more property. Anyways we had a rough summer last year as everyone knows so I'm curious if that hurt my winter grasses. I used about 25 more bales of hay than the previous year. So now I am looking into over seeding and what to do for winter grasses. My biggest concern is I do not have anything to cut the ground if that's what's needed. I can broadcast seed but as high as seed is I do not want to just throw my money away. Our local co-op doesn't have anything to rent for this so I have been on the internet searching but the best information will come from you guys with real life experiences. I have been looking at cultipackers but I'm not sure this is what I would need. A drill is out of the question as they are pretty expensive. I was looking at Kentucky 31 fescue with some red top clover and if I can find it throw some hairy vetch in there. What about ryegrass as well? I was thinking ryegrass dies out in the summer so that would be only a winter/early spring supplement? Just have a lot of questions as this is completely out of my line of knowledge.

 

[kenny thomas]

Fescue and clover can be frost seeded in the dark moon of February in your area. Too late probably this year for that. No matter how you do it it's very difficult to get the plants established with cattle on the pasture. The fresh tender growth of a new plant is the first thing they will eat.

 

[tsellars]

Might check with your county NRCS office on renting a no till drill. Our county offices here in Arkansas rent them out for $10/acre, some of the best money you will spend when trying to establish grass.

 

[tsellars]

And do what ever @kenny thomas says if you are trying to get going with KY31 and clover, he is the guru.

 

[kenny thomas]

Might check with your county NRCS office on renting a no till drill. Our county offices here in Arkansas rent them out for $10/acre, some of the best money you will spend when trying to establish grass.

I totally agree on the drill but much of mine is too steep so I let the cows work it in.

 

[ClinchValley86]

Not quite seed related, but sort of.

Best bang for your buck would be temporary wire, a couple reels and 50 step in posts. Use them to rotate across your pasture. Giving rest is of upmost importance.

Your soil is full of desired seed I bet. No herbicides or fertilize is needed going this route. It sorts itself out over the next few years.

With inputs as high as they are, getting away from them will help the bottom line.

I'd rent a drill and seed that way of seeding is a must. If not feasible you can broadcast and drag it in. Don't let animals on it for a little bit til it's sure footed. Otherwise you're likely wasting time and money.

I'm in east TN and this has worked like a champ for me. Spent next to nothing aside from temp fencing. I did drill some ryegrass last Fall to experiment.

Gotta split that pasture up if not already. Give it a break just as a hayfield gets a break between cuttings.

Another tip is to feed in different locations with each feeding. Seed in the hay will help you a lot. As will the planned placement of fertility.

 

[TNtrout23]

Not quite seed related, but sort of.

Best bang for your buck would be temporary wire, a couple reels and 50 step in posts. Use them to rotate across your pasture. Giving rest is of upmost importance.

Your soil is full of desired seed I bet. No herbicides or fertilize is needed going this route. It sorts itself out over the next few years.

With inputs as high as they are, getting away from them will help the bottom line.

I'd rent a drill and seed that way of seeding is a must. If not feasible you can broadcast and drag it in. Don't let animals on it for a little bit til it's sure footed. Otherwise you're likely wasting time and money.

I'm in east TN and this has worked like a champ for me. Spent next to nothing aside from temp fencing. I did drill some ryegrass last Fall to experiment.

Gotta split that pasture up if not already. Give it a break just as a hayfield gets a break between cuttings.

Another tip is to feed in different locations with each feeding. Seed in the hay will help you a lot. As will the planned placement of fertility.

I'm in south east tn but lucky down in the valley so no hills here. I'll check in with my local USDA office and even the UT ag office as they may know about a drill. Splitting the pasture is a great idea but I would have a issue there. I'm on a well but use spring water off the mountain as my main water source and when it rains hard I'll use my well until I get an hour to ride up on the mountain to clean out the spring. I guess I could roll out several hundred feet of water hose to seperate the pasture with the step in posts.

 

[TNtrout23]

Fescue and clover can be frost seeded in the dark moon of February in your area. Too late probably this year for that. No matter how you do it it's very difficult to get the plants established with cattle on the pasture. The fresh tender growth of a new plant is the first thing they will eat.

The dark moon in February is stuff that I've been looking for but couldn't find. It's little things like this that make a difference.

 

[TNtrout23]

I totally agree on the drill but much of mine is too steep so I let the cows work it in.

So you will seed and leave the cattle on it for a few days then pull them off?

 

[ClinchValley86]

So you will seed and leave the cattle on it for a few days then pull them off?

Yes. A week tops I'd say. I'd do 4 days myself. Being wet as it is.

If grass is very short there, seed would get into soil contact no problem. Just a matter of using the right seed for broadcasting this time of year.

I was told oats would be a good one for late winter broadcasting here if soil is naked. Not sure myself, never tried them.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I'm in south east tn but lucky down in the valley so no hills here. I'll check in with my local USDA office and even the UT ag office as they may know about a drill. Splitting the pasture is a great idea but I would have a issue there. I'm on a well but use spring water off the mountain as my main water source and when it rains hard I'll use my well until I get an hour to ride up on the mountain to clean out the spring. I guess I could roll out several hundred feet of water hose to seperate the pasture with the step in posts.

Keep fence over the hose and you'd probably be fine.

My water point is a hub of sorts. With the temp fence, if hot, you can put them anywhere. The pigtails loosen over time with moisture and freezes, so not a permanent thing.

 

[kenny thomas]

So you will seed and leave the cattle on it for a few days then pull them off?

Yes,

 

[kenny thomas]

I'm in south east tn but lucky down in the valley so no hills here. I'll check in with my local USDA office and even the UT ag office as they may know about a drill. Splitting the pasture is a great idea but I would have a issue there. I'm on a well but use spring water off the mountain as my main water source and when it rains hard I'll use my well until I get an hour to ride up on the mountain to clean out the spring. I guess I could roll out several hundred feet of water hose to seperate the pasture with the step in posts.

Most TN Co-ops rent drills very reasonable. Charge per acre of use.

 

[TNtrout23]

So even if I was to come across a seed drill does everyone still recommend to keep cattle off until it's established?

 

[tsellars]

So even if I was to come across a seed drill does everyone still recommend to keep cattle off until it's established?

Yes, the longer the better. If you could let it sit for a whole year that would be ideal, in my opinion.

The spots we have drilled do so much better if we let them do there thing for a year before we start grazing. If you needed immediate grazing you could do some type of summer annual and then turn around and drill your fescue this fall. Would still need to keep cattle off of it over the winter.

 

[ClinchValley86]

So even if I was to come across a seed drill does everyone still recommend to keep cattle off until it's established?

Within reason, yes. A year just isn't feasible for 99% of us.

Drilling does help get the roots lower faster, allowing quicker establishment and better footing. Ao you're chances of succes are likely better wirh the drill if you don't remove the animals. Just saying you'll get the best results completely removing the animals.

Whatever it is that you're going to seed, when young and roots are short, grazing will likely pull them right out if the ground, or kill them by tromping them up. I'd think 4 to 6 inches would be my minimum goal.

Only you know how long you can wait.

Have you considered a warm season and cool season at the same time? Two birds, one stone.

 

[Ebenezer]

"Your soil is full of desired seed I bet. No herbicides or fertilize is needed going this route. It sorts itself out over the next few years."
I know who's videos you watch. Keep telling that and watch the weeds grow. That is terrible advice if you do not live in the make believe land of youtube and don't have a seed fairy to come and sprinkle seeds at night.

"Drilling does help get the roots lower faster, allowing quicker establishment and better footing. Ao you're chances of succes are likely better wirh the drill if you don't remove the animals. Just saying you'll get the best results completely removing the animals."
Seeding rates are always lower (less money especially on improved varieties) when you drill. With a NT drill you can plant on a slant or up and down the hill and not risk a washout.

 

[chaded]

I thought the same thing too. I'm sure the soil does have desirable seed in it, it also has some things lurking in there you don't want.

 

[TNtrout23]

Within reason, yes. A year just isn't feasible for 99% of us.

Drilling does help get the roots lower faster, allowing quicker establishment and better footing. Ao you're chances of succes are likely better wirh the drill if you don't remove the animals. Just saying you'll get the best results completely removing the animals.

Whatever it is that you're going to seed, when young and roots are short, grazing will likely pull them right out if the ground, or kill them by tromping them up. I'd think 4 to 6 inches would be my minimum goal.

Only you know how long you can wait.

Have you considered a warm season and cool season at the same time? Two birds, one stone.

I have thought about both seasons but only have though you can plant certain seeds and certain times of the year.

 

[ClinchValley86]

"Your soil is full of desired seed I bet. No herbicides or fertilize is needed going this route. It sorts itself out over the next few years."
I know who's videos you watch. Keep telling that and watch the weeds grow. That is terrible advice if you do not live in the make believe land of youtube and don't have a seed fairy to come and sprinkle seeds at night.

"Drilling does help get the roots lower faster, allowing quicker establishment and better footing. Ao you're chances of succes are likely better wirh the drill if you don't remove the animals. Just saying you'll get the best results completely removing the animals."
Seeding rates are always lower (less money especially on improved varieties) when you drill. With a NT drill you can plant on a slant or up and down the hill and not risk a washout.

Who am I watching on YT?

My place has gone from trash to glorious (IMO) in 5 years time. What seed I have put down has failed 95 percent of the time. I whole heartedly believe it if I recommend something to someone.

There is a thing called plant succession. Weeds perform needed "work." After the soil has the proper conditioning the desired species will push them out. This will only work with the proper management though. Can't leave animals on the whole thing year round and expect anything to change, it'll only degrade.

By all means, help this fella spend all his money!