School me on over seeding pasture

[dave_shelby]

Understood. Be safe. And you aren't in the grazing belt.

I tried bale grazing one year. Left mudded up circles that turned to lambs quarter, thistle and pig weed. Four years later it's just turning to grass. That should work for you provided ground is frozen.

 

[ClinchValley86]

I tried oats like that once here in MI on bare ground when things were defrosting.....Got maybe one plant to grow per pound of seed. Your mileage may vary.

I've given up on trying to seed anything other than legumes into a stand. Nothing can compete with established fescue/Dallas grass for me.

It's an awful expensive endeavor when the weather doesn't cooperate.

I'm a believer in the seedbank at this point. Everything in it has a purpose. Just got to work "with" it. It's the cheapest approach too. WIN/WIN situation for me.

My 2 cents.

 

[Ebenezer]

Herefords in GA and SC are well known to be tolerant of KY31. The Trask lines. I spent 4 years running power lines with GA Power and most of the pastures north of the fall line, Macon to Disgusta were KY31......And most of the cattle were red with faces. Most guys raising them didn't even call them Herefords.....Just "ole white face cows". That KY31 was lush and green all through the winter too. But there was never any other forage in those pastures. Just the KY31.

Must have been a while. I am friends of the folks on Trask Ranch. About 3 Herefords there, at most, out of 100's. All others except for a few holdouts have gone black. And fescue tolerance is not in the mainstream of the breeds. Once you see folks tighten up breeding seasons and such they start hating fescue because they want to buy the named bulls and they don't cut it most of the time. The local discussions are quite opposite of your perception.

 

[Lucky_P]

I've given up on trying to seed anything other than legumes into a stand. Nothing can compete with established fescue/Dallas grass for me.

This!
Legume seed - clovers, vetch, annual lespedeza can 'work their way down' to make ground contact, and freeze/thaw cycles manage to get them 'into' the soil.
Timothy - with its tiny round seeds, will do likewise.
Other grass seeds, for the most part, will not achieve decent soil contact unless you're down to bare dirt... and then they are subject to predation from birds or surface germination and early death due to frost-heaving, dessication, etc. About the only 'grass' I ever had any luck overseeding and getting a decent stand of was fall-overseeded annual ryegrass.

 

[Cowman42]

Has anyone on this board planted a "novel" endophyte fescue over 4-5 years ago? Would you replant it today?

I have tried half a dozen novel and no endophyte fescues here in MI. I have neighbors who throw it in their hay mix. I haven't had any luck with it. I plant a tilled up strip 15' wide and a few hundred feet long. I do it about every year. I try to mix a cool season grass, a small amount of warm season grass, and a legume or two. I keep the cows off it for a year. Then we see how it works. The Fescues don't usually make past one year. I keep trying different spots and soils. I may have had some survive this time in a shaded/wooded area. I think I am too far north for it to complete with the Orchard and Meadow Fescues.

 

[Cowman42]

Must have been a while. I am friends of the folks on Trask Ranch. About 3 Herefords there, at most, out of 100's. All others except for a few holdouts have gone black. And fescue tolerance is not in the mainstream of the breeds. Once you see folks tighten up breeding seasons and such they start hating fescue because they want to buy the named bulls and they don't cut it most of the time. The local discussions are quite opposite of your perception.

Now that you say that......I am getting old faster than I think. It was near 20 years ago. Feels like yesterday. Yea black was nonexistent then. I have many fond memories of white faced cattle chasing me across pastures and destroying my VERY Expensive survey equipment. It is my understanding that the Trask line of Herefords was dispersed a long time ago and nearly lost. I think it was Clemson that took some in and saved the line. I wasn't a cowman yet. In fact, I am pretty sure that I decided to raise cattle on a farm over that way in '05. Took me a decade to find and buy land and then a couple cows. I suspect that going black is going to prove to be a mistake for those folks. Those white face cows were all fat little meat wagons. From the front they looked round and were only about 50-54 inches tall. Munching away on fescue even when it was 100 degrees out.

 

[Silver]

I have tried half a dozen novel and no endophyte fescues here in MI. I have neighbors who throw it in their hay mix. I haven't had any luck with it. I plant a tilled up strip 15' wide and a few hundred feet long. I do it about every year. I try to mix a cool season grass, a small amount of warm season grass, and a legume or two. I keep the cows off it for a year. Then we see how it works. The Fescues don't usually make past one year. I keep trying different spots and soils. I may have had some survive this time in a shaded/wooded area. I think I am too far north for it to complete with the Orchard and Meadow Fescues.

There are 2 grasses here that come to mind that never need planting again once established. One is meadow foxtail, the other is creeping red fescue.

 

[Cowman42]

Understood. Be safe. And you aren't in the grazing belt.

I tried bale grazing one year. Left mudded up circles that turned to lambs quarter, thistle and pig weed. Four years later it's just turning to grass. That should work for you provided ground is frozen.

Last 4-5 years the ground hasn't frozen at all. That's why I have been unrolling. It was in the 50's this weekend. In December. I also had the same experience bale grazing. I did it on sandy ground with maybe an inch of top soil. Somehow still turned into a muddy mess that didn't grow grass for over a year. 4x5's unroll into a strip a couple 100' long and then the cattle belly up to eat most of it then scour for green stuff left in the rest of the pasture. Works pretty well. I usually graze from early May to Jan. This year has been a bit different. I grazed off all my stockpile early. I usually try to feed hay in the fall while the pasture is sending down energy to the roots. Then graze at dormancy. My Tractor was in the shop for 2 months. I guess 50 years between engine rebuilds is ok. That first photo is where I have been unrolling this last few weeks. That is the residue from 4 or 5 bales. They don't leave that much and they don't tear it up either. The second one is from the other side, not yet unrolled on. That's in a floodplain with some really heavy clay soils. The kind that is sticky. The rest of the herd was busy scouring in the woods. They love acorns and windfall wild apples.

 

[wbvs58]

This!
Legume seed - clovers, vetch, annual lespedeza can 'work their way down' to make ground contact, and freeze/thaw cycles manage to get them 'into' the soil.
Timothy - with its tiny round seeds, will do likewise.
Other grass seeds, for the most part, will not achieve decent soil contact unless you're down to bare dirt... and then they are subject to predation from birds or surface germination and early death due to frost-heaving, dessication, etc. About the only 'grass' I ever had any luck overseeding and getting a decent stand of was fall-overseeded annual ryegrass.

And legumes will have a high percentage of hard seed that can lie dormant for a couple of years so a good seed bank.

Ken