BlueCollarCattle
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Thinking about using S Summit 4604 and S Chisum 255 this year. What has been anyone's experience with these sires?
BlueCollarCattle said:Thinking about using S Summit 4604 and S Chisum 255 this year. What has been anyone's experience with these sires?
BlueCollarCattle said:I wasn't very specific on what my intentions are with these sires. I am looking to breed replacements that are easy keeping, easy going (docile) and middle of the road birth weight and performance. Thanks for everyone's input so far
VaCowman said:In that case, you've found 2 good candidates it seems. It appears that 4604 may sire a tick heavier cow with a little more growth post weaning, but I'd bet 255 with be easier keeping. I think both would sire the kind you are wanting. 255 has more marbling, but still in the bottom 20% for that EPD. Neither have dependable accuracies for a majority of their epd's, so right now, they are pretty close. Personally, I like 255 (mainly because his birth and growth epd's have higher accuracies), but 4604 could certainly be the better of the two in due time. Keep us posted on what you decide. I'll have a few 255's next fall, and I'm pretty excited to see what they do. I'm not a number chaser, but I do like cows that are easy fleshing (with no supplement), breed up good, are docile and bring a calf to the weaning pen every year. I think these two will do just that!
I doubt you will see much difference in phenotype of each of the bulls' daughters. In the north country I think you would maintain mature weight around 1300. Meaning if I bred to a 1300 lb. cow I would expect a 1300 lb. daughter. Further south they might not get that big. There are daughters in production on both bulls so call and ask the people who have them IBcompton53 said:BlueCollarCattle said:I wasn't very specific on what my intentions are with these sires. I am looking to breed replacements that are easy keeping, easy going (docile) and middle of the road birth weight and performance. Thanks for everyone's input so far
either of those would probably be fine. Your mature weights are going to be pretty low, so you may want to keep that in mind. Breeding heifers from ultra low mature weight bulls has its own set of concerns. A 2400 pound clean up bull can injure yearling heifers, as well as calving concerns, should you try a bull with larger birthweights.
Having looked at the two, I personally would use chisum 255. Reasons being, higher accuracies on many of the EPDs. Accuracies below about a .5 are more or less worthless. I've spent a lot of time looking back at historic bull directories, and it is crazy how a bull can go from mature weights of top 5% with an accuracy of .32, to 4 years later mature weights of bottom 10% with accuracy of .86. It happens all the time. So often I will look at the bulls lineage and see what his parents suggest he might do, based on their higher accuracies.
Anyway, as a whole, I like chisums set of numbers marginally better than summit. I will grant that chisum's father's epds and his own both suggest cattle that are tall for their weight. In other words, If you look at a bull such as capitalist 028, he is toward the lower percentiles for mature height, but top 50ish percentile for mature weight. whereas chisum 255 and his father both have ultra low mature weights, and moderately low mature heights. Now...in the grand scheme of things, maybe you won't see a lot of difference, but....it is something to note. example, we have a couple jersey angus cross calves that grow leggy with no body capacity. Chisum 255 is the last bull I would ever want to use on genetics like that.
That being said, try some of them both! that's the beauty of AI breeding, and a couple years from now give us a report!
W.B. said:I doubt you will see much difference in phenotype of each of the bulls' daughters. In the north country I think you would maintain mature weight around 1300. Meaning if I bred to a 1300 lb. cow I would expect a 1300 lb. daughter. Further south they might not get that big. There are daughters in production on both bulls so call and ask the people who have them IBcompton53 said:BlueCollarCattle said:I wasn't very specific on what my intentions are with these sires. I am looking to breed replacements that are easy keeping, easy going (docile) and middle of the road birth weight and performance. Thanks for everyone's input so far
either of those would probably be fine. Your mature weights are going to be pretty low, so you may want to keep that in mind. Breeding heifers from ultra low mature weight bulls has its own set of concerns. A 2400 pound clean up bull can injure yearling heifers, as well as calving concerns, should you try a bull with larger birthweights.
Having looked at the two, I personally would use chisum 255. Reasons being, higher accuracies on many of the EPDs. Accuracies below about a .5 are more or less worthless. I've spent a lot of time looking back at historic bull directories, and it is crazy how a bull can go from mature weights of top 5% with an accuracy of .32, to 4 years later mature weights of bottom 10% with accuracy of .86. It happens all the time. So often I will look at the bulls lineage and see what his parents suggest he might do, based on their higher accuracies.
Anyway, as a whole, I like chisums set of numbers marginally better than summit. I will grant that chisum's father's epds and his own both suggest cattle that are tall for their weight. In other words, If you look at a bull such as capitalist 028, he is toward the lower percentiles for mature height, but top 50ish percentile for mature weight. whereas chisum 255 and his father both have ultra low mature weights, and moderately low mature heights. Now...in the grand scheme of things, maybe you won't see a lot of difference, but....it is something to note. example, we have a couple jersey angus cross calves that grow leggy with no body capacity. Chisum 255 is the last bull I would ever want to use on genetics like that.
That being said, try some of them both! that's the beauty of AI breeding, and a couple years from now give us a report!
guarantee you it wont be a wasted call. I know some don't think these type numbered cattle have enough grow but we finished all of our 956 steer progeny when we had them and they would weigh 1200 lbs at 13 mos. age with no implants and only 60 to 90 days of a finisher diet.
While my 956 daughters are not big cows they are not runts either and their calves grow well. I am not interested in cows that weigh 1450+ and there are a lot of them around here. The program that raised the two bulls is a legit cow outfit that is commercially orientated. I will qualify that I am not being paid in any way to endorse their program.
VaCowman said:I like the Comrade bull. I've never used him due to his HP epd. How have you gotten along in regards to getting his heifers to settle? I know there are several factors that go into fertility, especially heifer fertility, but that is not an area I am willing to sacrifice.