respatory problems

[richard s]

Hello everyone. I am new here and I am having a problem and would welcome some advice.

We have received 3 diff shipments of shipper cattle over the last 3 weeks (500lbs each) for a total of 350 cattle. I have lost 6 cattle in the interm.
We have given them 5.5 ml of Draxxen,
also Nuflor
and baytril
and banomine.
Some have had Triangle 9?
and some have had vistral?

these have been given over the last week or so.
Most are Bulls

I am still having problems. They are wheezing, and caughing.

PLEASE EXCUSE THE SPELLING

I would appriciate any feed back.

These cows came from Georgia, and are now in Oklahoma

 

[rockridgecattle]

My first suggestion would be talk to a vet, get them tested and fight what you have with the right drugs.
If it is BVD it's gonna be tough and some will just plain die. Cost of treating versus cost of gain.

second, buy only vaccinated calves

third, give the draxin a chance to work. After draxin, excede. Add in an anti inflamatory like anafin etc.
Draxin has the time frame of two weeks. Treat and then leave them be. Od'ing can be just as bad as not treating.
Set up protocols for all animals arriving on site. Same protocols. Talk to your vet about this.
Shipping fever is tough. For a feedlot even tougher, get tough on this with the next batch of animals. Put the new protocols in effect right away.

PS we sell vaccinated calves...so do alot of others.

 

[larryshoat]

Are you just doing pull and treat as you spot them? Do you have anything in the feed and water? How many are sick now? Are you able to separate the sicks as you pull them so that they don't have to go back in with the others? Is it the older ones that are getting sick. Believe me, I've been exactly where you are, you've already used the best antibiotics money can buy and the cattle are still sick.

Larry

 

[richard s]

We got tough on the third batch that arrived (150) and gave them draxxen right off the truck. I guess we will let time tell. I will use an antiinflamatory thanks. In response to some questions. They are young cattle, and I would say 25% are still wheezing. All have now gotten Draxxen. We purchased them thru Barrets Cattle Co in Georgia.

I dont have anything in the feed or the water, Should I? they are seperated on 3 diff 80 ac sections according to when they arrived.

They have improved, most are eating (hay alphalpha, and feed)

Thanks for the replys anything suggested helps.

 

[larryshoat]

On our auction cattle we've been using Vista Once,Vision 7, and a shot of draxxin coming in. Then repeat the vaccines in 14 days. We have had very little trouble. In my opinion unless these calves were vaccinated before the Triangle 9 probably didn't do much good. With 25% showing symptoms I would put a stiff dose of AS700 in the feed.


Larry

 

[Howdyjabo]

Part of your problem is getting the calves from the southeast in the last three weeks.
We had a heat wave right about then- it really hurt the cattle
No shade(trees had no leaves) and they had their full winter coats.
Then it turned off cold wet and rainy.
We are dealing with a train wreck from that period too.
--------------------------------------------------------
Next time(I am repeating some good advice you already got from Rockridge)

use a metaphalatic treatment on arrival or buy preconditioned calves.
Its worth it putting that many in at one time.

work them up and vaccinate them all the same
Consider using Multi Min

Get rid of their balls(it takes longer to settle and comingle bulls)
or buy steers.
Have a protocol in place for treatment- and stick to it
Use a thermometer
---------------------------------------------------------
For now we both need to work on salvage.- Get that thermometer out. Make all treatment decisions based on it
Follow thru on all treatments- gotta give the long acting stuff time to work. If they aren't going backwards don't touch them for 3-5 days.
Draxin isn't the best choice for a calf already in severe resp distress. It doesn't hit fast enough. At 500lbs I think you are under dosing-- read the label and if you have to estimate, do it high. Draxin also doesn't work as a follow up(repull) treatment well.
Use the Baytril as a high single dose treatment- the other multiple dosing doesn't work well for resp. stuff.

Quit using the Banamine after the first day of treatment(it gives false information to base further treatments on)
Get some Dexamethazone (sp) in.Those in resp distress are candidates for a one time shot.
Antihistimines may help some with lung damage survive.
Keep the sick ones seperate-might help to stop the merry go round.

Most important get them eating some high energy/protein feed.
they can't get better without energy.
Being Cold won't hurt them but being WET and cold will.

Some people believe in antibiotics in the feed- never did much for us.I am against putting anything in the water for fresh calves. It may turn them off then they don't get the water they need let alone the meds.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Don't let a cough worry you too much- Alot of fresh calves cough up a storm when they have been worked up and co-mingled. and recovering sick calves will cough and have snotty noses and still be recovering without help from you.
Watch for other signs of illness before you pull to treat or retreat.and then only treat if they have a temperature.


As far as where you got them from
Unless there is a history of bad calves from a source- everyone gets a trainwreck. Jumping to the idea that someone did you wrong is shortsighted.
Buy cheap calves and you have to accept the risk-- If you don't want the risk, buy(and pay for) preconditioned calves.And even then you can still have a trainwreck.

 

[rockridgecattle]

Howdyjabo, do you vaccinate? I only ask this cause it would minimize the train wrecks.
Pre breeding cows and bulls,
calves at about the two or three month stage and then booster minimum three weeks before weaning and or shipping, Has made a big difference here.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Oh yes.........we vaccinate
We put in low end calves year round.
A train wreck here and there is just part of it

Seems like one load a year(70 out of 1600+)will hit a weather issue in the critical first week- that just overwhelms their fragile systems.
Its even worse when it happens during a heat wave- lots more end up dead..

 

[rockridgecattle]

so you are a feed lot operator, I assumed cow calf, my apologies. Feed lot guys have it tough when it comes to herd health.

 

[larryshoat]

I noticed I didn't see Micotil listed as treatment, maybe Micotil + Sustain III. Naxel + Tylan is another combination that might work on the re-pulls. In severe cases we have injected Naxel and dexamethasone into the trachea. This gets the antibiotic into the lung in high concentrations.

Larry

 

[Howdyjabo]

I have it even worse than feedlots-- We precondition salebarn bulls. We only keep them 4-6 wks- then ship them on.

 

[larryshoat]

I have it even worse than feedlots-- We precondition salebarn bulls. We only keep them 4-6 wks- then ship them on.

Yea ,thats about as rough as it gets. Have a wreck with those it does'nt give you much time to get your money back or if the market moves against you. At least in the feedlot you can hope to recover some of that loss. If corn keeps going this thing gonna turn ugly.

Larry

 

[Howdyjabo]

We do alot of contract stuff for feedlots- that eliminates the market swings. But we still go in the hole on bad health loads.

And I agree- somethings gotta give
I just can't understand why it hasn't already happened.
All I can figure is that the post Cow/calf market has too much invested in infrastructure and are staying in just to cover their notes(include me here) -even that can't go on forever.

I have been waiting for years for the market to bust- but something keeps it going strong-- its gonna be BAD when it happens.

 

[richard s]

I want to make it clear that in no way do I blam the Barrets cattle company. The cattle were good looking, big etc. I think the weather coupled with the long trip took its tole.

I am getting the temp gague out! I appriciate all of you advice and will keep you posted. I look forward to this forum. Thanks for making it possible.


Again I think the cattle became sick in the transfer and the unsually cold weather we have been having. Baretts is a good company and I recomend them highly.

 

[rockridgecattle]

richard s, i would still check that company to see if they vaccinate there cows, calves etc. This makes a huge difference for the feedlot owner. Even if they give the first round and you give the second....big difference. They make look good but it's what is inside that what counts

 

[jayfarmlaw]

I had a client get into a train wreck like that in a backgrounding yard. His calves were a little lighter than yours but had huge death loss from shipping fever with cattle from the Southeast US. He set up a receiving program under the supervision of Dr. Shawn Swagger out of Edmond. He was a consulting vet for alot of feedyards and really knew the industry well. He drove a circuit and checked on his clients once a month, more often if needed, and trained the hired hands on what to look for, how to post cattle, and the best treatments for the situation. If stocker cattle will be your livelyhood, I can not reccomend a better vet in Oklahoma.

I had a 10% loss on some stockers several years ago and I used Micotil, Nacel, and Nuflor. It saved some but they were nothing more than chronics that survived...but never gained much.

Good luck,

Jay

 

[Howdyjabo]

Yeah those southeastern calves are a trainwreck waiting to happen....... shouldn't buy any calves from here(even with a .10-.40 discount) unless you pay to have them preconditioned first
did I mention I make my living preconditioning calves for people

The trouble is not with Southeastern calves-- its the haul
Long hauls are tough on fresh calves. Throw in a quick climate change
and bad things can happen.

I apologise for jumping to the idea you mentioned the buyers for a bad reason. I'm a little touchy there obviously .

Rockridge-- I'll lay odds these were calves gathered off of individual farms and most likely stockyards. Then shipped to him.
With no health background on most of them.

 

[Needmore Land and Cattle]

I bought some calves from the southeast also. They were good calves, been vaccinated, the whole nine yards, but...
the long haul, all the stress, and changing weather nearly did them in. A good dose of Baytril, backed up with Draxxin, Banamine, and a one time dose of Dexamethasone pulled them out. Hard pressed now to tell who came from where, cept for the ear tags. The sickness was from the trip, not where they came from.

 

[rockridgecattle]

I see what you, the feed lot guys are saying.
I'm a cow calf producer, but have worked in feedlots to learn what happens to my calves in hopes of selling a better quality animal.
Yes the long haul effects them.
Here is what i am saying though
If they are vaccinated, they may get sick from the haul but their recovery time is much quicker, less drugs to get them better, if any, and less chronics and deaths. Less all round poor doers. this is because they have the immunity to fight the disease brought on by the long haul, co mingling etc.
The calves you buy should be given their shots (at least the first round) no less than three weeks prior to shipping to you. The reason is, it takes that amount of time for the immunity to build into the system to fight the stresses of what happens when they are shipped. If you give them the first round of shots, you have to wait threes weeks to see the relief by then, it's too late.

Vaccinated calves may get sick, but no where near the severity or cost of tretment than if they had not been vaccinated prior to shipping in the first place.