Renting rates

[Sir Loin]

Re:

How many do you have to put on it right now? and what are you running?

That's where I was going next also.
But first I want to establish the max number of animal he can run. Kind of reverse engineering it.
OK, we know he has meet the requirements for shelter and water, now we need to see about his feed ( food ) situation.
we know his total acres are 266, at $45 per, for a total cost of $11,970 .
But we need to know how much of the 266 ac are woods (not pasture ) and how much is used for hay only ( not pasture ).
Without knowing the % of woods and where he will get hay and using the total acres of 266, his land cost is $45. Per acre. But I don't think all 266 acres are usable.
#LHB#

Can you put some numbers to how much is pasture and woods and explain how you intend to address hay ( food )?
SL

 

[#LHB#]

Re:

How many do you have to put on it right now? and what are you running?

That's where I was going next also.
But first I want to establish the max number of animal he can run. Kind of reverse engineering it.
OK, we know he has meet the requirements for shelter and water, now we need to see about his feed ( food ) situation.
we know his total acres are 266, at $45 per, for a total cost of $11,970 .
But we need to know how much of the 266 ac are woods (not pasture ) and how much is used for hay only ( not pasture ).
Without knowing the % of woods and where he will get hay and using the total acres of 266, his land cost is $45. Per acre. But I don't think all 266 acres are usable.
#LHB#

Can you put some numbers to how much is pasture and woods and explain how you intend to address hay ( food )?
SL

SL All of the 266 acres are useable pretty much. There are trees through out the pasture but there is no woods land. We bale our own peanut hay and raise a little bit of rye we bale also so none of the pasture will be used for hay. We can run about a cow per acre here some people I know run a cow/half per acre. I can put about 60 head there now the rest I will have to buy.

 

[Sir Loin]

LHB,
Re:

All of the 266 acres are useable pretty much.

That's great!

Re:

We bale our own peanut hay and raise a little bit of rye we bale also so none of the pasture will be used for hay.

Great again. I'm assuming that is off premises right?
And that the fair market value is $25 per bale? ( round 5 X 5 )
Or you can buy, in your area, a 5 X 5 for $25?

Re:

We can run about a cow per acre here some people I know run a cow/half per acre.

OK, now at what weight do you intend to wean.
400 weaned on wheels?
Or larger? 600 - 700?

Re :

I can put about 60 head there now the rest I will have to buy.

OK, I will run the numbers with 60 cows for 1 year.
SL

 

[#LHB#]

SL, all the hay is raised off site and we figure we have about $7 per 5x6 1000lb bale and you can buy peanut hay around here for about $25 a 5x6 bale. I intend to wean them and sell them in the 600-700lb range. Im going to try to buy 100 bred cow/calf pairs this year if I can find them then next year buy that many again.

 

[Sir Loin]

Re:

OK, I will run the numbers with 60 cows for 1 year.

Total land cost: --------------------------------$11,970
Land cost per cow based on 60 cows: ---------- $19.95 ( 20 )
Feed ( Food ) cost: pasture ----------------------------- 0 ( in land cost )
Hay cost: ------------------------------------------$ 300
Salt/mineral blocks ------------------------------$ 25
Note: hay cost is computed for a worst case scenario ( 30 day drought in summer and max 30 day cold for wither in area ) of feeding hay 6 months @ $25 per 5 x 5 bale. 12 Bales

For a total per cow cost per year of : $345.

Now compare this to the rule of thumb "cost per cow per year" below for your area.

South of the Mason Dixon line
If you have 25 cows or less your cost per year is $500 per cow.
If you have 25 - 50 cows your cost per year is $400 per cow.
If you have more then 50 cows your cost per year is $300 per cow.

north of the Mason Dixon line
If you have 25 cows or less your cost per year is $550 per cow.
If you have 25 - 50 cows your cost per year is $ 440 per cow.
If you have more then 50 but not more then 200 cows your cost per year is $330 per cow.

If you are in the NW US or north of the US boarder your cost is 10% higher then north of the Mason Dixon line and is as such.
If you have 25 cows or less your cost per year is $605 per cow.
If you have 25 - 50 cows your cost per year is $ 484 per cow.
If you have more then 50 but not more then 200 cows your cost per year is $363. per cow.

That tells me your $45 per ac is right where it should be.
SL

 

[Sir Loin]

LHB

I am a strong believer in, if you are going to error, error on the side of caution.
Re:
[quote We can run about a cow per acre here some people I know run a cow/half per acre.
&
I intend to wean them and sell them in the 600-700lb range. [/quote]
As I am not that familiar with the historical stocking rate in your area, I would at least start out using a stocking rate of 1.5 per acre as those 6 - 700 pounders will eat some grass and hay.

What color cattle are you going to run? Black or colored?
SL
PS; Be sure to check my math as you are talking to a guy who flunked roll-a-dex and pencil sharpening in high school.

 

[#LHB#]

SL I will be running angus cows and will be running simangus or charangus bulls. Thank you for your help

 

[Sir Loin]

LHB
Re

I will be running angus cows and will be running simangus or charangus bulls

OK, I will give it to you both ways.
From Athens stockyard, which should be somewhere near you in NC, depending on where you are.
As of 2/19/13
Colored average of both heifers and bulls @ 650 -------------- 1.26 per lb - $819
Black average of both heifers and bulls @ 650 ----------------- 1.40 per lb--$910

With a cost of $345 per yr to produce a calf and get him/her to 650 lbs your total cost for the calf is: 12 mo ( #345 ) and ½ of 7 mo = 100 so $345 + 100 = $445.

Profit:
Colored -------$374 per calf
Black ----------$465 per calf

That also shows me $45 per acre is a good price. That would be a go for me.
Hope that helps
SL

 

[#LHB#]

SL I was wondering how you computed the hay cost per cow per year? Is there some sort of formula?

 

[Sir Loin]

LHB
Re:

I was wondering how you computed the hay cost per cow per year? Is there some sort of formula?

Sorta. That and SWAG ( Systematic Wild Azz Guess )
I used 60 lbs per day per cow for 183 days ( 10,980 lbs )out of the year( 6 mo. ) divided by 900lbs ( my bale weight ) and got 12 bales @ $25 per bale for $300,

Does that not work for your thinking?
SL

 

[#LHB#]

LHB
Re:

I was wondering how you computed the hay cost per cow per year? Is there some sort of formula?

Sorta. That and SWAG ( Systematic Wild Azz Guess )
I used 60 lbs per day per cow for 183 days ( 10,980 lbs )out of the year( 6 mo. ) divided by 900lbs ( my bale weight ) and got 12 bales @ $25 per bale for $300,

Does that not work for your thinking?
SL

Thats the same way I looked at it I just did it a little cheaper with our bales being cheaper than $25 a bale. Is 60lbs a day what an average cow consumes a day on hay? I didnt no it was that much. We also are lucky enuf we dont have to feed hay as long as you either. After baling and transporting at most we have $10 in a bale.

 

[Dave]

The average cow will consume about 3% of her body weight a day in dry matter. 60 pounds per day would be a 2,000 pound cow. I figure more like 35 pounds per day. And depending on weather for a dry cow it might be more like 2.5%

 

[H and H]

SL - is there a '0' missing in the land cost per cow? For 60 head @ $45/acre on 266 acres, I came up with $199.50 per cow.

Gabe

 

[#LHB#]

LHB
Re:

I was wondering how you computed the hay cost per cow per year? Is there some sort of formula?

Sorta. That and SWAG ( Systematic Wild Azz Guess )
I used 60 lbs per day per cow for 183 days ( 10,980 lbs )out of the year( 6 mo. ) divided by 900lbs ( my bale weight ) and got 12 bales @ $25 per bale for $300,

Does that not work for your thinking?
SL

I used that formula on my own cattle and figured at 3% of there body weight 40lbs of hay feeding them for 5 months and at our cost the most is $10 per 1k bale, our hay cost per year per cow is about $60. Thats a heck of a difference than what your feeding.

 

[Sir Loin]

H and H
Re:

is there a '0' missing in the land cost per cow? For 60 head @ $45/acre on 266 acres, I came up with $199.50 per cow.

You are correct! I sure did put the decimal in the wrong place.
Thanks H & H I stand corrected.

LHB
be sure to make a note of this and rework the numbers. Or maybe I should ask H & H to do it.
Can't say I didn't ward ya.
But even then it still looks like a good deal.

SL

 

[#LHB#]

What is the best way to calculate how much money you have in each calf? Now that I know how to calculate it for the cow to see what my profit projections for the year will be. Can anyone help me with that?

 

[Sir Loin]

LHB,
Boy, I have never done that.
OK I will run some thoughts up the flag bole and see what we get.
Lets take it one step at a time.

IMO:
First we need to breed the cow.
If you AI that would be easy, just use the cost to AL'
Now if you use a bull.
You cost will be,:
use the cost of A cow for a year and divided that by the total number he will service in one year. ( shared cost )
Again, be sure to check my math.
Now up until birth.
9/12 of A cow cost.
Now who do we charge her 3 months open time to?? Humm?
I say charge it to this calf.
Now you have a full year ( 12 months ) of A cow cost to this calf and he is on the ground and she in open again, which is then charged to the next calf.
But she is also feeding the first calf while she is open,, but that time will be charged to the next calf.
So, the first calf is now 3 months old and the cow is breed.
At this time the first calf and the second calf should share the cost ( 50 - 50 ) until the first calf is weaned and then the second calf takes over 100% of cow cost and is charged 3 months open time when he hit's the ground.

Try that on for size and see what your math say this far and we will see where we go from there.
SL
PS: What was your cow cost after you correct my poor math?