Released list of carrier bulls of Curly Calf Syndrome

[Cattleman200]

Sam is correct in saying that the bigger breeders wont think twice about the testing cost, even if it is $75. MMI has a Tru-Polled test that cost $110 for Limousin breeders. Serious breeders with higher dollar animals test many animals each year on this test. I know breeders that only have 25-30 females and they test 5-10 per year. This may not be a great example when compared to an AM carrier possibility calf in Angus but it will be on the price of a test.

I also dont believe that any sensible bigger Angus breeder would breed a large number of females to a carrier bull unless they have a many units of carrier semen that they want to use up before the deadline. Certainly smaller breeders cant afford to do it either. If you are sending 67% of your calves to the stockyard out of a registered herd of 100 you wont be in business long if you are depending on your cattle to support you. Even in your hypothetical herd there would need to be some different breeding or culling decisions made just on the percentage you have going out before the carrier cenario. Just my opinion.

Circle H Ranch
http://www.chrlimousin.com

 

[Cattleman200]

The problem with that is you are going to have to pay $75 a calf to see if they are carriers or not. By 2010, all the new carriers won't be registerable. IF half of your bull calves normally aren't bull quality and 20% of your heifers aren't.....normally. When you add this to the mix, only 25% of the bulls are sellable as registered bulls and only 40% of the heifers. IF 67.5% of the calves have to go to the stockyard (because they just aren't good enough OR are carriers) and in a 100 cow herd you are paying $7500 a year in DNA testing that could go towards feed, hay, fertilizer, or the bank account, it is hard for me to see how you are making money using this "high dollar semen". I panic easily so I would sell it now while it is "high dollar" and buy some AMFree semen at market price and never knowingly use another carrier.
I forgot something in my last post. If you are culling 50% of your calves because of quality issues in this hypothetical herd and 10% of your females based on a 50/50 of bulls/heifers calf crop why would you test the 25 bulls and 5 heifers and spend the $2250 for no reason on culls that are going to the stockyard?

Circle H Ranch
http://www.chrlimousin.com

 

[angus9259]

GAR 2536 is a cow still worth $500,000. Half her calves will be AMC. Half will not. The half that aren't are worth $10,000 each or more. The math is simple. It's not really much of a risk. The person (like me) who has a $2000 AMC cow sitting out back will probably cull and move on or move it into their commercial herd, breed to AMF bulls and send the calves to the feedlot.

 

[Angus In Texas]

We all have been breeding AMC bulls to AMC cows unknowingly for the past 15 years possibly. In certain instances you would benefit from breeding an AMC bull to an AMF cow and vice versus. If you're cattle are good enough then the risk may be worth it. That is a decision that must be made on a case by case basis. You will still end up with a calf to sell and the majority of the time if you bred an AMC to an AMC you'd still have a calf to sell. If there was a true 50/50 chance of having a CCS calf when mating an AMC to an AMC we would have seen a lot more CCS calves in the last 18 years since 1680 was born.

I think folks just need to use caution and common sense and reevaluate their practices.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Cattleman 200 have you any info on testing for CCS in the purebred Limis?

 

[Cattleman200]

Cattleman 200 have you any info on testing for CCS in the purebred Limis?

No , I dont have any more information than anyone else does but I would assume it would be done the same way as Angus if someone had some of the known carrier/s in their animals pedigrees. I havent heard of anyone I know having a problem with it in Limis although I do have a couple of GAR Solution heifers that I will need to test when the test is opened to the public.


Circle H Ranch
http://www.chrlimousin.com

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Problem i see with the purebreds is being able to trace the pedigree back far enough to see what was used to turn them black. Limflex won't be a problem.

 

[Brandonm22]

We all have been breeding AMC bulls to AMC cows unknowingly for the past 15 years possibly. In certain instances you would benefit from breeding an AMC bull to an AMF cow and vice versus. If you're cattle are good enough then the risk may be worth it. That is a decision that must be made on a case by case basis. You will still end up with a calf to sell and the majority of the time if you bred an AMC to an AMC you'd still have a calf to sell. If there was a true 50/50 chance of having a CCS calf when mating an AMC to an AMC we would have seen a lot more CCS calves in the last 18 years since 1680 was born.

I think folks just need to use caution and common sense and reevaluate their practices.

Well, we don't know for certain what the genetics is on this. I still think that there is a yet to be identified environmental trigger that sets the gene off. IF this is a simple recessive and you used a carrier like 1680 on your cows, only have of the resulting heifers would be AMCarriers. Half would be AMFree. If you came back on that herd with a Precision son who was also an AMCarrier (and half the Precisions sons would be AMFree) then the odds are you would only see 12.5% of the calf crop be AMSyndrome. In a 30 cow herd, that is 2-4 stills a year. I don't think that sets off too many alarm bells. Most people just would change their vaccination program, spray for toxic plants, buy their hay someplace else, or change the bull. If you only use that bull for 2 or 3 years, you probably never grasped what happened and blamed drought conditions or BVD type II or trich or moldy hay, some other environmental factor.


IF Angus won't let you register the AMCarrier calves beginning in 2010, I am really at a loss to see what there is to gain by using known carrier semen in a registered herd.

 

[RD-Sam]

The problem with that is you are going to have to pay $75 a calf to see if they are carriers or not. By 2010, all the new carriers won't be registerable. IF half of your bull calves normally aren't bull quality and 20% of your heifers aren't.....normally. When you add this to the mix, only 25% of the bulls are sellable as registered bulls and only 40% of the heifers. IF 67.5% of the calves have to go to the stockyard (because they just aren't good enough OR are carriers) and in a 100 cow herd you are paying $7500 a year in DNA testing that could go towards feed, hay, fertilizer, or the bank account, it is hard for me to see how you are making money using this "high dollar semen". I panic easily so I would sell it now while it is "high dollar" and buy some AMFree semen at market price and never knowingly use another carrier.
I forgot something in my last post. If you are culling 50% of your calves because of quality issues in this hypothetical herd and 10% of your females based on a 50/50 of bulls/heifers calf crop why would you test the 25 bulls and 5 heifers and spend the $2250 for no reason on culls that are going to the stockyard?

Circle H Ranch
http://www.chrlimousin.com

As of right now, if you had lines like 1680 and you tested all the offspring, it may pay back in a big way. The $75 you spent to confirm an AMF calf from those lines may bring you big dollars when it comes time to sell, lets not forget all the good qualities that line had that drew everyone to it to begin with. :cowboy:

 

[Frankie]

As of right now, if you had lines like 1680 and you tested all the offspring, it may pay back in a big way. The $75 you spent to confirm an AMF calf from those lines may bring you big dollars when it comes time to sell, lets not forget all the good qualities that line had that drew everyone to it to begin with. :cowboy:

Well, it might pay back in a big way, but I doubt it. I think the 1680 line is toast. The cows that are tested free will be fine, but I sincerely doubt that another 1680 son will ever have a great deal of influence on the Angus breed. There are just too many other options.

BTW, I was glad to see that QAS Traveler 23-4 tested free. And EXT. ;-)

 

[RD-Sam]

You and me both, I am vested heavily in 23-4. Why would you think the 1680 line is toast? I have semen from a bull out of the line that tested free and will gladly use it when it is time. I also have semen from another bull that tested free out of the 9J9 line, and I have no problem using that. And who says it has to be a bull out of 1680, a nice AMF cow will bring some really good money.