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Registered vs. Non-Registered

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lmp570

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For a small cattle operation (under 25 cows) is it worth the headache to keep the animals registered? I know to make serious money in the reg. business you have to have a solid reputation and presentation, but with the small operation i have and being new with no reputation in the cattle biz... is it even worth it to try and make the big bucks at the local registered sales or should i do the non-reg approach and sell them at the local stockyards for less $$?

God Bless!
 

dun

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We sell our registered yearling heifers for about $150 more then they wouuld bring at the sale barn. For us, in most years, it's worth keeping the registrations up. That also depends partly on how much it costs to keep them up and register the calves
 

bigbull338

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right now im a small reg breeder.with 6 reg beefmaster cows.an 2 heifers that im going to reg along with 1 possably 2 bull calves to reg.but i do try to keep the very top end of the bulls to raise as herd bulls.so if i was you.an i had reg cows.id keep the papers up on the reg calves.
 

TheBullLady

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It depends on what your goal is. If you want to raise seed stock, it will take time to make yourself a reputation, but you'll get more money for good replacement stock than you will feeder calves. But also keep in mind unless you're willing to spend a lot of money to buy into the "popular" bloodlines, and AI your females, and keep your sale cattle on feed, you're probably better off selling to the auction barn.
 

lmp570

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thanks for the replies. let me tell u my set up so youll have a better idea of whats goin on at this time with my reg. livestock. (we have over 70 unreg. herford/angus cows)

Registered Red Angus
1 bull
3 cows
6 heifers
2 calves

i wanted to give the reg. deal a try so i bought the bull for $2000 and 3 cow/calf pairs for $1800. we havent sold any of our reg. animals yet because we havent had any bulls and are trying to build up a herd so were keeping the females.

we are on average getting about $1.00 +/- .10 per steer when we take the unreg to the stockyard at 12-15 months old, so typically well bring in $600-750 per head.

ANYWAY, in an ideal scenerio i would love to be able to sell my 18 mo old reg. bulls for around $1800-2100. with a mid-range bloodline and such a small operation... am i just dreaming with those figures?
 

dun

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If you belong to your state Red Angus Association you should get referrels through them. That and local people are most of our sales. Also we will consign through our associations annual sale.
 

bigbull338

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your not asking to much for any future bulls you have to sale.$1500 to $1800 is a fair price.i ask $1500 to $2000 for my reg beefmaster bulls.an $800 to $1000 for weaned heifers.
 

lmp570

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bigbull338":2ukrcqfx said:
your not asking to much for any future bulls you have to sale.$1500 to $1800 is a fair price.i ask $1500 to $2000 for my reg beefmaster bulls.an $800 to $1000 for weaned heifers.

well if thats the case... if i keep the reg bulls until 18 mo. old and sell them for at least $1500, i would still come out ahead compared to selling steers at 15 mo. old at the stockyard for $650-800.

not to be difficult but if thats the case why isnt there more registered breeders? there seems to be so much more money in the reg. biz. If you have a quality bull and you want $1500 for him, will you still have a little trouble selling him? im sure it has alot to do with the local market but... if theres so much more money in the registered animals, why doesnt more ppl do it?

God Bless!
 

dun

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There is more money in SOME registered animals. 90% of the bulls that are born shouldn't be used for breeding and well over 50% of the heifers should be eaten and not bred. Just because an animal is registered or registerable doesn;t make it a a quality animal.
 

lmp570

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i see what ur saying dun.

in a nutshell would you advise dont band ANY young reg. bull, but instead wait until he is weaned and if i believe his quality is below average castrate him and take him to the stockyard?
 

Frankie

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lmp570":2jbvkqjn said:
well if thats the case... if i keep the reg bulls until 18 mo. old and sell them for at least $1500, i would still come out ahead compared to selling steers at 15 mo. old at the stockyard for $650-800.

not to be difficult but if thats the case why isnt there more registered breeders? there seems to be so much more money in the reg. biz. If you have a quality bull and you want $1500 for him, will you still have a little trouble selling him? im sure it has alot to do with the local market but... if theres so much more money in the registered animals, why doesnt more ppl do it?

God Bless!

Consider what it's going to cost you to keep a bull for 18 months? You could be grazing another cow raising another $650-800 calf that you know you can market at the sale barn. He's going to need to be fed, seperated from the cow herd, probably tear up a fence and a feed bunk or two. He may die, get sick, struck by lightening, bloat, fight, any number of things young bulls tend to do. Or just not be a good bull. How will you market him?

The real market for registered bulls is the commercial cattleman. The cattle market and drought greatly affect bull prices. Realistically, you won't see many small breeders selling $100,000 bulls, but there are lots of small Angus (black) breeders. Almost 17,000 breeders registered Angus cattle last year. Over 66% of those breeders registered 10 or fewer animals, accounting for about 12% of total registrations.
 

Brandonm22

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lmp570":3ujc6ao8 said:
i see what ur saying dun.

in a nutshell would you advise dont band ANY young reg. bull, but instead wait until he is weaned and if i believe his quality is below average castrate him and take him to the stockyard?

I would wait until weaning to evaluate your bull crop and then castrate the bottom 30-60%. As you get more and more experienced you will eventually be able to identify most of the one's that aren't going to be bull quality at 100 days.
 

bigbull338

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as far as keeping an raising bull calves.you want to keep the top 5% or 10% of the bulls.an you cull the bulls real hard.
 

Brandonm22

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bigbull338":1o1avau8 said:
as far as keeping an raising bull calves.you want to keep the top 5% or 10% of the bulls.an you cull the bulls real hard.

He only has 25 cows. The top 10% would be 2. If you only are going to sell one or two bulls you probably can't justify paying for an ad. He is trying to make MONEY here.
 

dun

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Brandonm22":3aajjhgl said:
bigbull338":3aajjhgl said:
as far as keeping an raising bull calves.you want to keep the top 5% or 10% of the bulls.an you cull the bulls real hard.

He only has 25 cows. The top 10% would be 2. If you only are going to sell one or two bulls you probably can't justify paying for an ad. He is trying to make MONEY here.

That's the reason to cut almost every bull. All the ads in the world won;t make up for the word of mouth of seling one mediocre bull.
 

Brandonm22

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If most of your cows can't produce a marketable bull when AIed to the best bulls in the breed.....you need to buy better cows.
 

bigbull338

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well i know alot of high rollers in the reg cattle business.an what they spend on cows heifers bulls an flushes would blow your mind.heck im friends with them as well.an i know what 1 or 2 sells their show heifers for.they sale for anywhere from $1500 to $5000 a hd or more.an they buy flushes for $10,000 to $15,000 a flush.an give $40,000 or more for bulls.now ill never buy an sell cattle for those prices.but im not scared to keep an feed top bull calves.your not gonna get rich in the reg game.nor in cattle for that matter.you do it for the love of it.an most people dont care how much they spend on cattle.
 

lmp570

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dun":3bucbpzl said:
Brandonm22":3bucbpzl said:
bigbull338":3bucbpzl said:
as far as keeping an raising bull calves.you want to keep the top 5% or 10% of the bulls.an you cull the bulls real hard.

He only has 25 cows. The top 10% would be 2. If you only are going to sell one or two bulls you probably can't justify paying for an ad. He is trying to make MONEY here.

That's the reason to cut almost every bull. All the ads in the world won;t make up for the word of mouth of seling one mediocre bull.

very good point. starting out i guess u need to be more strict than ever on what u sell.

but really u guys seem to be indirectly saying that with my small operation, im going to have to play this like more of a non-reg operation than a reg because 9 out of 10 of my bulls will be cut and going to the stockyard. if i only keep 1 or 2 a year to sell... whew.
 

Brandonm22

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lmp570":zljmkz58 said:
very good point. starting out i guess u need to be more strict than ever on what u sell.

but really u guys seem to be indirectly saying that with my small operation, im going to have to play this like more of a non-reg operation than a reg because 9 out of 10 of my bulls will be cut and going to the stockyard. if i only keep 1 or 2 a year to sell... whew.


I didn't bother to look up Kentucky but here in Alabama feeder heifers averaged 80 cents a pounds in the past year (according to the 'AL Cattleman's Mag'). IF you already have a registered herd, it would probably pay to keep up the registrations rather than let the value of your herd assets decline by going commercial. On the other hand if you are buying a herd.......why pay $800 - 2400++ for registered females when 500 lb heifers are going for less than $400 a head if their calves are ultimately all going to end up in the same place for the same money.
 

TheBullLady

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I think where you're fairly new at this, you probably need to get someone more experienced to give you an honest opinion on how good these bulls really are. Also.. you have to really be able to market your calves. Some people are a lot better at selling than others, and this is going to make a really big impact on how well you do! You'll need to go to some of the registered sales and talk to people that might be buyers.. and you have to be able to give them some good reasons to come and take a look at what you have. Some smaller / new breeders have been successful selling their stock below market, to get their foot in the door. Once you have some placements, it will be easier to sell them at their true value.
 
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