Putting Colt Under Saddle

[circlet]

Here's a topic I have posted on another forum that's primarily "horse-y", thought I'd give a forum that's more "cow-ey" a shot at this question, see if the attitudes are different, I'm guessing they might be.

My wife and I are having this discussion over what's the best circumstance to start training colts. I know there are lots of "what ifs" that go along with this topic, but lets' say we're talking "ideal" circumstances...

I say that you're better off starting out a colt that you've had since it was a weanling or even younger. I think it gives the animal a year or two to get used to you and trust being around you, it also has had a chance to get used to any distractions that may take place at your facility - dogs, cats, tractors, cars etc.

My wife says you're better off finding something that's ready to go under saddle right away - primarily because you don't have to feed them to do nothing for 2 years (she listen's to her dad too much! :roll: ;-) )

I realize that having a weanling creates the danger that you treat it too much like a pet, and it can get spoiled and/or disrespectful, but if you're careful not to allow that, I think that you can go a long ways training the horse before you ever think about taking that first ride.

What's every one else's thoughts and experiences with this?

 

[msscamp]

It all depends on the number of horses, your situation, and how much time you can spend messing with them from birth on. If they are kicked out on pasture and not handled from birth to weaning - your wife has some very valid points, as it will take time to establish trust and create a bond. On the other hand, if the foals are kept close to the house where you can interact with them on a regular basis, I would tend to agree with you. We do not raise horses, but we've had occasion to breed a number of horses, and then break the resulting foals. The majority of the time, the foals never even bucked because they were messed with and trust had already been established. Do I believe this will happen in every situation? No!

 

[Alan]

Your wife has a very valid point. I don't like to start my horses under saddle until they are 3 yr olds. By the time they are 3 and mature enough to handle a rider without the increased risk of leg damage that they stand as a 2 yr old, they will have already cost you more then if you just went out a bought a 3 year old.

With that being said, I have the last few years, bred, delivered and raised my own saddle horses, or at least bought them as a weanling. I prefer knowing what I'm getting for a horse, their personality, how spookey they are, if they tend to bite or kick, rear, stubborn, etc. If I have the horse from weanling I have plenty to do with them to get them ready for the first leg over. They have a great amount of trust in me, I know their history as far as health, injury, and quirks.

Now with that being said, I'm old enough that as a 3 yr old I send them to 1 of 2 very trustworthy trainers to start them under saddle. But before they go they know how to tie, cross tie, lunge, give to pressure, flex, clip, trailer, bath, work with all four feet from the same side. Plus they are use to being saddled, and taking a bit. Lots of work needed before you climb on.

Alan

 

[flaboy?]

Oh boy this is a tough one. I prefer to get mine as weanling's. I get know them and they get to know me before we start schooling. The last two I went both ways. I bought a weanling and 6 months later bought a "green broke" 3.5 YO.

I worked the baby from the ground starting at about 14 months. I worked the 3.5YO from a ground for only a short period before getting on him. From the ground he was perfect. Look at the thread "Flaboy gets his butt kicked" to see how he is from the saddle.

I was riding the baby at 26-28 months in the woods and around cows. All the ground work I put in him paid off before I got in the saddle. I rode him in the round pen about a dozen times before taking him out into an open semi wooded field.

I got both of them as far as could given the time I had. They are both now in ranch horse training and have been for a month and a half. They are getting trained 6 days a week where I only had time for maybe two days a week.

The trainer told me my 2YO was the best trained 2YO horse he could remember receiving. Made me feel really good. He tells me the baby learns quickly and the older one wants to test you on everything. I believe the older one didn't have good ground training as a youngster.

Bottom line is, there is no best way. I prefer to raise mine and know what I have rather than fixing problems others created.

 

[Horse Guy]

You would be way better off and it would be way better if you could just go out and buy 4YO prospects that wernt messed with.
Problem around here is that good prospect geldings get sold before they are weaned. Sometimes they get sold before they are even born.
These 2 and older colts that you see for sale are basically the leftovers. Chances are they have been ridden. If you want the cream you have to buy them young and that comes with risk. Example they could die before they get old enough to start.Even if things go well you have to do their feet, deworm,teeth,vaccinate, feed them, plus you will have injurys or sickness during that time which is more expense.
I tend to look for colts that are ranch raised. Example colts that grow up on a couple of sections of hills and that re used to creeks, wildlife, cows, etc. But thats not necessary. Example I have one TB cross Paint that was born in and spent its first three years in a small paddock. Colt has pig eyes, double swirl and acted like a bronc. I started him this summer when he turned 4. The colt is the best prospect I have ever had. Smart and sensible as can be. Fears nothing, curious, wants to go on big circles to explore. Sometimes you just cant tell what they will be like. This colt spent most of its younger life practicing bucking. Swaps ends, sunfishes, kicks out, had all the bells and whisels. But this colt hasnt bucked once with me in the saddle and I have been riding him all summer.

 

[I luv herfrds]

I got my first horse as a weanling. Wilder then the whole bunch. Both husband and I spent alot of time doing ground work on her. Was riding her at two yo. Not hard riding, short rides of about a mile. Took her on a 3 day trail ride as a 2.5yo. Did better then all the other horses around her.
Next horse bought as a 4 mo. Same thing worked with him alot. Short rides. He is now 10 yo. Not a bad horse. Does great with our kids.
Bought last fall a 3yo Morgan gelding ready to go under saddle. I wanted him to go to a professional trainer and to grow a bit more. He is going this next spring. He had three rides on him and my son put a ride on him too.

Got burned on two "broke" horses. Will now either buy a weanling and start ourselves or a started 3yo.

 

[clampitt]

I have worked on places that never touched one ever untill they were two then run em in a bucking chute catch their head and get a halter and lead on them.Turn them out on a snubbing horse.In a whike they lead fairly well this was a big strong stud that could handle the heat.Snub them up to the horn and saddle up and get on.About three trips around the roping pen and you were on your own..Made some really nice horses too.We have some mares and a stud all we do is wean the colts and fillys worm them halter break them brush a little then turn em back out untill they are two they have to travel over rocks up and down hills and learn to handle the ground and travel to eat and drink.We feed them with the cows in the winter roll down a hill round bales and pour cake on the hay.Keep out min.blocks and they grow up strong and learning to handle all kinds of ground.We have never crippled one or had a bad deal starting them they ride fine.I have had horses sent to me that were raised and handled all their life in a pen and close up and all that kinda stuff.They cant travel over anything but level ground and are used to getting their way they get mad and pi$$y about things whan you go to the pasture and they actually have to sweat.I have a friend that rides all my colts now I dont have time any more he wants them never being handled.They learn faster and everyday is a new deal he rides them outside and checks cattle and ropes a few if he can get by on them.Horses that want to ride usually do and the others dont.Worst I ever was hurt was by a hand raised in the yard pet.

 

[ArrowHBrand]

My wife and I prefer to buy either weanlings or yearlings and raise them until they are 2 when we start them under saddle. We've been burnt too many times buying saddle horses or two year olds and having to break bad habits. She bought a QH mare a few years ago that would rather stay in a stall all day, never liked getting feet wet or muddy, got nervous around the cattle. Sold her for a yearling that my wife started this year and is turning out great. We bought a yearling stallion this year that was treated like a pet and had a host of bad habits, but he is really coming around. I just picked up a weanling POA and we foaled a Paint stallion that will be worked with over winter. We both have yearlings that will be worked over winter to prepare them for saddle next summer. Do plenty of ground work and that will eliminate a lot of buck.

 

[Cindy]

I like to breed them and then when there foaled,you are training every time you go near them.I like to imprint them, and then train as they mature.I start ground work at 2 and ride at 3,short roundpen lessons.Ride out of roundpen as a cooldown.Put to the mountains as a 4yr old.by 5 they are learning finishing. That is an overall picture.Cindy

 

[flaboy?]

I like to breed them and then when there foaled,you are training every time you go near them.I like to imprint them, and then train as they mature.I start ground work at 2 and ride at 3,short roundpen lessons.Ride out of roundpen as a cooldown.Put to the mountains as a 4yr old.by 5 they are learning finishing. That is an overall picture.Cindy

Heck, by 5 mine are looking forward to retiring. :lol:

I start round pen work from 12-18 months. Get on them at 24-28 months and work in the round pen. Ride them out of the round pen anywhere from a month to two into the woods. I don't ride them very long during this period. Usually not more than 30-45 minutes. At 3 they are working cattle.

 

[circlet]

can't somebody PLEASE just tell me i'm right?!?! :help: i think if i could show my wife in writing that someone agrees with me i might stand half a chance in this argument!!

we're currently working with two horses, a 4 y.o. we bought (from someone we know and respect) and a 3 y.o. we bought as a weanling. she'll even admit that the 3 y.o. is doing much better and is a safer and better trained horse. but part of our difference of opinion on this subject is that i have the opinion that slow, boring rides are the best kind - and better for everyone's health! but for some reason the wife likes to have them just enough of an edge to them that the ride is always a little bit exciting.

my wife tends to become bored with a horse once she's put a few rides on it and she's looking for the next one to put under saddle. i think this is because when she was growing up, they put so many miles on horses chasing cattle all over the nebraska sandhills that their horses never were green very long. they kept around 20-25 horses at any one time and used them all, they were started under saddle and next thing you knew they were chasing cattle and working very very hard - takes alot of the edge off of a horse as i'm sure you'd all basically agree. these boring times in iowa of just quietly going along the cornfields aren't really enough action for her i don't think!

 

[ArrowHBrand]

Heck, by 5 mine are looking forward to retiring. :lol:

I start round pen work from 12-18 months. Get on them at 24-28 months and work in the round pen. Ride them out of the round pen anywhere from a month to two into the woods. I don't ride them very long during this period. Usually not more than 30-45 minutes. At 3 they are working cattle.

That's how I like to start horses. I'll use a round pen, but by their tenth or so ride I am riding them checking fence, checking cattle, learning their job. I'll go back to the round pen as needed, but I don't limit myself to the round pen only. My horses are rope broke by the time they are a yearling because I believe all horses should be rope broke. Don't confuse rope broke with broke to rope. My current horse is a 3 year old that is working cattle. Horses need a job and something to occupy their minds or else they will come up with something to occupy themselves. Sometimes that's not good.

 

[ArrowHBrand]

Heck, by 5 mine are looking forward to retiring. :lol:

I start round pen work from 12-18 months. Get on them at 24-28 months and work in the round pen. Ride them out of the round pen anywhere from a month to two into the woods. I don't ride them very long during this period. Usually not more than 30-45 minutes. At 3 they are working cattle.

That's how I like to start horses. I'll use a round pen, but by their tenth or so ride I am riding them checking fence, checking cattle, learning their job. I'll go back to the round pen as needed, but I don't limit myself to the round pen only. My horses are rope broke by the time they are a yearling because I believe all horses should be rope broke. Don't confuse rope broke with broke to rope. My current horse is a 3 year old that is working cattle. Horses need a job and something to occupy their minds or else they will come up with something to occupy themselves. Sometimes that's not good.

 

[flaboy?]

Circlet, I have one she would never get bored on. He is a 4YO going on 2. :lol:

He always puts some excitement between your legs.

Given a choice I prefer to raise mine from a yearling. Sometimes there are other factors involved for folks though.

 

[Alan]

can't somebody PLEASE just tell me i'm right?!?! :help: i think if i could show my wife in writing that someone agrees with me i might stand half a chance in this argument!!

we're currently working with two horses, a 4 y.o. we bought (from someone we know and respect) and a 3 y.o. we bought as a weanling. she'll even admit that the 3 y.o. is doing much better and is a safer and better trained horse. but part of our difference of opinion on this subject is that i have the opinion that slow, boring rides are the best kind - and better for everyone's health! but for some reason the wife likes to have them just enough of an edge to them that the ride is always a little bit exciting.

my wife tends to become bored with a horse once she's put a few rides on it and she's looking for the next one to put under saddle. i think this is because when she was growing up, they put so many miles on horses chasing cattle all over the nebraska sandhills that their horses never were green very long. they kept around 20-25 horses at any one time and used them all, they were started under saddle and next thing you knew they were chasing cattle and working very very hard - takes alot of the edge off of a horse as i'm sure you'd all basically agree. these boring times in iowa of just quietly going along the cornfields aren't really enough action for her i don't think!

Circlet, I THINK YOU ARE RIGHT! And, as you can see, I think most of the people that have posted on this thread think a weanling is the way to go. If you breed a mare make sure you imprint the foal.

Now I'm going to go Dr. Phil on you. Your wife should realize that if you prefer the slow, easy, relaxed rides and she always want to stomp the gas a bit, her "edgy" rides are going to ruin your rides, and eventually your enjoyment of horses. I'm like you and want a nice peaceful ride, no snowy river stuff. I have been on rides where someone want to gallop and they take off, most of the other riders who don't want to gallop are fighting there horse for a while.... no fun and someone always gets mad.

Now on to the next thing, I have a horse for your wife. Forget about Flaboys horse, now that he has bucked Flaboy off he only has three legs and no teeth (the horse). My wife has this one of a kind TB, just a jewel. I love this horse so much, but I believe I can part with him for a good cause.

Alan

 

[circlet]

alan i think i've read other posts by you concerning this horse? (forgive me if i'm wrong, but it seems to ring a bell), if i'm remembering things correctly, i'll have to respectfully decline i'm afraid - the big life ins. policy is on me, not her!

actually, our wedded bliss really isn't too affected by our horse issues. while i didn't grow up on the working cattle ranch like she did, i've done enough riding and ranch/cattle work so that i'm fully aware that there is a time and place to stomp on the gas so to speak, so it's not that i don't respect a horse that has a motor that's always running, in fact i do think it's a good thing to have a horse that wants to work. and as we've been together longer, she respects that i'm more of the attitude that a lazy evening ride is just that, a lazy evening ride.

this wasn't really an "argument" per se...just a little thing we like to argue about over supper. i put it on the thread because i was curious as to people's attitudes in general.

 

[dgb]

OK - I think you're right. But, as you pointed out, only if you can
1. not turn your horse into a pet
2. desensitize him to his fears, and
3. produce a brave, confident horse.
Easier said than done; But you can do it if you have the right attitude (one based on the knowledge and understanding of the horse) to develop a relationship founded on communication and the emotional knowledge of how your horse behaves. If you work with a colt that you've known from an early age you will certainly eliminate the "unknowns." The opposite is true with a horse with which you have no history, regardless of how qualified and skilled the original trainer is.

PS – I've just added almost 60 minutes of free online video to my website that was taken from my Journey to Connection Series – Colt Starting DVD. I think it might be of interest.
Click here for the video

 

[Brahma Bull]

I just got my self another challenge.A reg. 1 year old paint gelding.So it will be another 2 years down the road before he gets a saddle on him.Think I have my work cut out for me.Just what should all I do between now and then to get him ready?He will be used for cowboy action so I better get him use to gunfire.Sure don't want to have a bad accident/experience like my last horse,that almost killed me.I can now look back and see all my mistakes I made,did things wrong.So it will be a lot of learning for both of us.I plan to pay for breaking him and handling.Would it be ok between 2 to 3 to introduce a saddle to him while he is tied to a post?Slowly add little weight?How not to make him a spoiled pet but yet bond with him?Will have to utilize this form a lot.Is there one of those dummy books on horses?

 

[4H Girl]

Your wife has a very valid point. I don't like to start my horses under saddle until they are 3 yr olds. By the time they are 3 and mature enough to handle a rider without the increased risk of leg damage that they stand as a 2 yr old, they will have already cost you more then if you just went out a bought a 3 year old.

Hi. Im new. I totally agree with you. My 1st horse (besides the old mare that I shared with my sister) was a 7 month old paint filly. I know people say that a young horse is not for a beginner owner, but we wanted to know what we had. We pretty much knew that she had not been abused or anything like that. She is 3 almost 4 now. I just started actually ridding her a few weeks ago. I trained her on the driving reins and things like that before I climbed aboard.
With that being said, I have the last few years, bred, delivered and raised my own saddle horses, or at least bought them as a weanling. I prefer knowing what I'm getting for a horse, their personality, how spookey they are, if they tend to bite or kick, rear, stubborn, etc. If I have the horse from weanling I have plenty to do with them to get them ready for the first leg over. They have a great amount of trust in me, I know their history as far as health, injury, and quirks.

Now with that being said, I'm old enough that as a 3 yr old I send them to 1 of 2 very trustworthy trainers to start them under saddle. But before they go they know how to tie, cross tie, lunge, give to pressure, flex, clip, trailer, bath, work with all four feet from the same side. Plus they are use to being saddled, and taking a bit. Lots of work needed before you climb on.

Alan

 

[jbar]

the best horse i started was more like what your wife is saying. i bought him from an old timer that raises some nice horses. he had a pen of about 25 head all running together. i had bred some of his mares to my paint stud and there was a paint filly out of my stud in this bunch.i went to look her over but a big bay stud colt (18 mounth old) was in the group.and bay is my color so i maid a deal for him. these colts had never had human hands on them just fed them and looked at em.we ran him in the cattle pens put a halter on him in the cattle chute alley way and ran him in my cattle trailer. got him to the barn (at the time i was riden colts for ray payne)put him in a stall let him drag a lead rope the rest of the day and all night. next morning i led him across the hall way into the arena let him stand tried while i rode the colts that where already started. i messed with him between horses( brushed him ,saddle blanket on his back)next day same only saddled him and let stand with saddle just mainly taking it slow. 3rd day was on his back,just going slow no hurry. the thing about training a horse is you need to have more time than the horse.i am afraid for me those day are over.to much wife training and dog training maybe by the time i get back to training horses the market will be better. :cboy: by the way i still have this horse he is a aqha three bars and thermo socks breeding my 5year old son rides him know.