Purchasing Cow/calf pairs in spring '09

[srockcastle]

I am new to the beef cattle industry and am looking to purchase cow/calf pairs in the spring. I am in Western NY and was wondering where I can find them. I am looking for Devon breed or some other smaller frame score that will thrive on pasture only. I also will be looking for yearling steer to raise for direct market beef. Thanks for info.

 

[Keren]

Get yourself a good moderate framed, easy doing cow. You can find that in any breed if you look hard enough. Would suggest Murray Grey (cos I breed em ;-) ) or a small Hereford, Angus or better yet a good moderate framed, easy fleshing black baldie cow would be fine. Try to buy a cow with a bull/steer calf at foot, and confirmed pregnant again. That way not only will the cow have company but also you have your freezer beef right there ready to wean and feed out. And you dont have to worry about mating for your next calf crop.

Looking for the right individuals within mainstream breeds is gonna be a lot easier for you than looking for an unconventional breed which exhibits the same quality standard.

Also be aware that for animals to 'thrive on pasture only' doesnt mean they are gonna thrive on any old cr@p that grows up out of your ground - for pasture raised beef to work you need to put a lot of time, work and money into improving your pastures and the mix of grasses and otherwise that grow there.

 

[dun]

Also be aware that for animals to 'thrive on pasture only' doesnt mean they are gonna thrive on any old cr@p that grows up out of your ground - for pasture raised beef to work you need to put a lot of time, work and money into improving your pastures and the mix of grasses and otherwise that grow there.

Just wanted to add emphasis

 

[srockcastle]

Thanks Karen, The property that I have to graze on is a piece that has been mowed the last few years to stop the re-growth of scrub bushes. I noticed that the pasture has a great combination of clover and grasses. I am planning to do some winter seeding on a couple of parcels as soon as the first heavy snow that is down now is gone(about 24"). I have decided on White Clover and Bluegrass as my forage for now. Are you familiar with direct cut silage bunkered and the air vacuumed out for winter feed. I had thought about winter grazing but we get a lot of lake effect snow here that seems to sock us in from time to time. I have thought about other breeds like Murray Greys but don't know much about them. Do they have a small frame score or are they a larger frame which might require a longer gain period?

 

[Keren]

Glad to hear you are managing the pasture side of things.

Cant help you with the silage as we do hay here - only a couple blokes do silage.

The goal is to find the right phenotype for your goal - you might find that in a particular breed but dont limit yourself to that - you may find individuals over several breeds which excel in your situation. What you are looking for is a small to moderate framed cow that is early maturing - she will ideally look short, fat and dumpy and probably not all that pretty. When you go out looking for your cows, visit several diff. breeders and assess the condition of their calves at weaning time - what would be ideal for you is the type of cow that can produce calves almost ready to go when you wean them. Calves that are already grown out and just need a little finishing off whether you want to do that with a little grain or some silage, but either way it would work.

I will try and find a picture for you of the ideal cow for this situation.

 

[Keren]

Take a look at the 2 yr old dark heifer in this post (not the 5 y.o silver cow - she is extreme)

viewtopic.php?f=13&t=27341&p=287207&hilit=photos#p287207

The photo gallery deleted them so this is the only way I can post them.

Also the last cow with her second calf in this post:

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=39781&p=438662&hilit=photos#p438662

They are the same animal, and IMO the phenotype you need to secure if you want animals that perform well on grass. You can see she's not all that pretty, but the thing is she stays fat on the smell of an oily rag, and she raises a big thumping calf every year. Because she stays well fleshed she breeds back on time no worries.

 

[kenny thomas]

GOOD LOOKING COWS.
Everyone must make their own choice according to the markets and other reasons. But I have seen slaughter bulls as high as 85 cents per pound this year. That makes a 2000 bull worth 1700 dollars. Granted all do not bring that but most brought 70-75. The market is down on slaughter but most buyers say it will be higher than we have ever seen it some time this winter as the numbers get smaller.
Anyway, for me if one dies on the farm it is because I could not get it on the trailer to get it sold. Even if it brings only a few hundred dollars that is another ton of feed.
Looking forward to learning more about your cattle in Australia.

 

[kenny thomas]

Sorry, part of my reply was in regard to the bull in the picture link but the info is still the same.

 

[Keren]

Not wanting to hijack the thread but FYI kenny the bull in question did not end up being euthanased at that point, he ended up being taken to slaughter a few months ago, his arthritis had got too bad and he was pretty close to being a downer. So he ended up being slaughtered - prices are MUCH better now. At the time I posted that thread things were really bad, I mean really really bad like you wouldnt believe. I think every community around here has someone who committed suicide at that point in time because it all just seemed so hopeless ...


But, back to the original thread!

 

[SRBeef]

...I am planning to do some winter seeding on a couple of parcels as soon as the first heavy snow that is down now is gone(about 24"). I have decided on White Clover and Bluegrass as my forage for now.

Have you tried this "winter seeding" before with any success? I did in WI and for me it was basically a waste of seed money. Don't mean to say it can't work but my WI climate is somewhat similar to your W NY climate and I just don't see enough of a stand from this winter "frost" seeding compared to drilling it.

I had much better luck renting a no-till drill (or hire a nieghbor who has a good no-till drill) early in the spring and drill the new seed right into the existing sod. Many local NRCS offices have no-till drills they rent out as do some implement dealers.

I would also second the idea of Baldies or other more common breeds but buy from a LOCAL grass-based breeder so that you know the animals are suited to your area and grassfed plan.

In most areas there are cattle buyers who know cattle much better than we beginners. Contact one with a good local reputation and let him find some good local cattle for you. Pairs are a good idea but let him know ahead o time so he can keep his eye open for some. I wouldn't worry so much about frame size at first compared to locally adapted and disposition.

One problem with any cattle enterprise is that it takes a couple years to really get things going. With poor or wrong cattle you can waste a couple years on them before you realize they are not right for you and your plan and area.

Good Luck.

 

[dun]

...I am planning to do some winter seeding on a couple of parcels as soon as the first heavy snow that is down now is gone(about 24"). I have decided on White Clover and Bluegrass as my forage for now.

Have you tried this "winter seeding" before with any success? I did in WI and for me it was basically a waste of seed money. Don't mean to say it can't work but my WI climate is somewhat similar to your W NY climate and I just don't see enough of a stand from this winter "frost" seeding compared to drilling it.

I had much better luck renting a no-till drill (or hire a nieghbor who has a good no-till drill) early in the spring and drill the new seed right into the existing sod. Many local NRCS offices have no-till drills they rent out as do some implement dealers.

I would also second the idea of Baldies or other more common breeds but buy from a LOCAL grass-based breeder so that you know the animals are suited to your area and grassfed plan.

In most areas there are cattle buyers who know cattle much better than we beginners. Contact one with a good local reputation and let him find some good local cattle for you. Pairs are a good idea but let him know ahead o time so he can keep his eye open for some. I wouldn't worry so much about frame size at first compared to locally adapted and disposition.

One problem with any cattle enterprise is that it takes a couple years to really get things going. With poor or wrong cattle you can waste a couple years on them before you realize they are not right for you and your plan and area.

Good Luck.

Frosy seeding with a soft seed, i.e. anything other then clover or alfalfa is pretty much a waste of money. Even forst seeding clover or alfalfa is an iffy proposition if you don;t time it right. Too soon and it doesn;t come up, to late and it won;t come up till the following year or not at all.

 

[1982vett]

Not enough rain, it comes up and dies. :frowns:

 

[srockcastle]

Not wanting to hijack the thread but FYI kenny the bull in question did not end up being euthanased at that point, he ended up being taken to slaughter a few months ago, his arthritis had got too bad and he was pretty close to being a downer. So he ended up being slaughtered - prices are MUCH better now. At the time I posted that thread things were really bad, I mean really really bad like you wouldnt believe. I think every community around here has someone who committed suicide at that point in time because it all just seemed so hopeless ...


But, back to the original thread!

Hi Karen, I am curious of the breed "Black Baldie". I have not been able to find anything about that breed anywhere. Is it a cross breed or is that one a pure bred or slang for some other breed? I just came back from a Stockman Grass Farmer seminar called Small,Smart and Successful. Among some of the speakers were Joel Salatine and Alan Nation. Great info and nice to get with so many like minded people. One thing they brought up several times was the topic of leasing land rather than purchasing land. The consensus was you are better off leasing your land rather than purchasing. That was new to me. Leasing prices were lower than deeded payments and you don't have to pay the taxes.

 

[1982vett]

Hi Karen, I am curious of the breed "Black Baldie". I have not been able to find anything about that breed anywhere. Is it a cross breed or is that one a pure bred or slang for some other breed? I just came back from a Stockman Grass Farmer seminar called Small,Smart and Successful. Among some of the speakers were Joel Salatine and Alan Nation. Great info and nice to get with so many like minded people. One thing they brought up several times was the topic of leasing land rather than purchasing land. The consensus was you are better off leasing your land rather than purchasing. That was new to me. Leasing prices were lower than deeded payments and you don't have to pay the taxes.

Other side, you don't participate in the value appreciation of the land. Improvements made to it become the property of the deeded owner, if they allow you to make any improvements. You can loose leasing rights at anytime, unless otherwise provided in an legal lease agreement.

Black baldies are crossbreds.