Pulling calves using a truck or tractor...

[Little Cow]

Thank you for all the opinions! I can see people resorting to desperate measures in the wee hours but there is no way I would even try a truck or tractor myself.

Speaking of which, any here have the skill to do a c-section? Do you call a vet to help you close the cow up?

We did the 1/4 turn at the college, too. The senior calving guys explained that the calf was widest across the hips and the cow was widest up and down, so if you got the hips coming out sideways instead of the diving position, you'd have the best chance of avoiding hiplock. Interestingly, though we worked hard on a bunch calves, we never did use the puller. Just OB chains and reaching in there to rearrange the calf's position, when necessary. I thank my lucky stars that I got to practice calving on a whole bunch of other people's cattle!! Sure as heck didn't make me a cattlewoman, but it did give me some great "oh @!#%" skills. And the knowledge to know when I need help.

 

[nap]

This happened to me once with a small cow and a very large bull calf. As hard as I tried, I couldn't pull the calf with obstetric chains. To complicate matters the cow was mired in a stream bed ( this seems to always happen to me). I ended up attaching the chains to the front end loader on the tractor and tried to "gently" pull the calf. Unfortunately the calf was already dead and the cow ended up dying a few days later. I believe situations like this are bound to happen and there really isn't a whole lot you can do.

 

[angus9259]

I have a calf puller and a tractor - it's always about the right tool for the job to prevent loss and damage. Waiting too long for a vet that is unavailable is another way of causing unnecessary damage and loss.

Never say never or think someone is an idiot unless you were standing beside them.

As MM said, pulling a calf will take the same amount of force regardless of what's attempting to pull it out - the key question is - what are your options to supply that force and how can you best control the rate and direction of application. With those things in mind and in the absence of a vet (as is frequently my case), it doesn't matter what you use because it has to come out.

 

[milkmaid]

Speaking of which, any here have the skill to do a c-section? Do you call a vet to help you close the cow up?

I believe Ryan knows how. If not Ryan, it's one of the longhorn breeders that has the know-how and skill to do a c-section.

If I didn't know how to close the cow up (keeping in mind you have to stitch not only the incision in the hide, but also the uterus) I wouldn't dare open her up. What if you can't get in touch with a vet? or they can't come out? I learned recently -through experience- that it's a lot easier to cut a cow open than to sew her up.

Note also that there are certain drugs you'd need on hand if you were doing a c-section on a live animal, and vets don't make a practice of routinely handing those out to us commoners.

My vet did tell me once that he's occasionally had people call for help sewing something up after they'd tried and failed. Personally, if I have to have the vet sew the cow up I'd rather that he also cut the cow open too, that way everything is done right.

 

[Little Cow]

I can only imagine the stress and pain caused by exerting that much force to pull a calf. I mean, the amount of pull that a tractor or truck would have and the fact that I was told to pull with contractions and hold steady pressure in between, well, I just can't see how you wouldn't hurt the cow. How do know when she's contracting?

As a woman who is nine months along, if hubby and I can't make the long trip into town and I'm having trouble with the birth, well, I'd be pretty upset if goes outside and warms up the tractor!!! :shock:

I hear you about c-sections, MM. If I really need that cow and calf, I'll just spend the money for the vet to do the whole thing. I can't imagine cutting into an animal without strong meds in her first. For c-sections, I think the vets stitch up the uterus, two layers of muscle, and the hide. I remember it took a chunk of time, done right. Then give serious antibiotics.

BTW, I'd be interested to hear your story about how you had to cut a cow open...

 

[3waycross]

Hate to admit it but I have done it a couple times when we were kids and didn't know any better, neither time was a disaster both cows lived and calved again the next year.

The other time was last year. We had a 16month old heifer giving birth to a huge calf. Don't ask me how I had nothing to do with what led up to that mess. Anyway we found her just at first light out by the county road with a dead calf stuck halfway out and she looked and acted like she was on her way out too.
Would have taken at least 30 min to get the puller and we didn't think we had the 30 min to spare.

We hooked the lariet to the calves head and hooves and ran it thru the fence out to the road. had no other choice. Tried to pull the calf and it was stuck so tight we drug the cow 15 feet. Ended up dragging her but against a RR tie sunk in the ground. Un hooked the rope and repositioned the truck so that we were essentially pulling toward her hocks, and GENTLY eased the calf out. It weighed right at 100lbs.

Were a lot of mistakes mad you bet but the bottom line is she rebred after restin and healing for several months and is raising a very nice calf as we speak. Didn't like it but it seemed to be the right thing at the time and I would do it again under the same circumstances.

 

[Brandonm22]

I must confess that I have done this......multiple times usually with very good results. Growing up, there were years where my Grandfather had some back issues and I was too small to do too much (though I could drive by the time I was FIVE). We had a Case SC and a Allis Chalmers WD 45. They both have hand clutches. We also had a Ford 6600 but it wasn't good for subtle movements. My grandfather would lay down the cow out in the field with half hitches and tie off her legs so she couldn't kick. If he couldn't get the calf out, we would back one of those old tractors up to the cow. My Grandfather would put his pulling ropes around the front feet of the calf and tie it off to the tractor. He would plop down with his back to the cow and dig in his feet so she wouldn't slide and then he would instruct me to just touch the hand clutch SLIGHTLY (and I would hear it if it wasn't very slightly). He would yell at me to touch it again if all was going well or back it up if he wanted to work on the calf some more. The WD-45s hand clutch let you make very very slight movements easily and you never fully engaged the hand clutch (and of course the tractor was in the lowest gear). Eventually, I got big enough that he would just give me one rope and we would pull the calf together and we went away from the tractor method.

 

[backhoeboogie]

If I didn't know how to close the cow up (keeping in mind you have to stitch not only the incision in the hide, but also the uterus) I wouldn't dare open her up. What if you can't get in touch with a vet? or they can't come out? I learned recently -through experience- that it's a lot easier to cut a cow open than to sew her up.

I would not do a C-Section.

I hate to say this, but for minor incision repairs in an emergency, you can use glue to patch surface wounds. Do it quick and have the glue available before you cut. Prep/flush the wound with alcohol or peroxide then apply the glue and hold the wound closed until the glue sets. Make sure there is no hair or any other foreign objects in the wound before you glue it shut. Since I am not a professional and my stitching lacks that expertise, I actually prefer glue. It is much quicker and much neater than my stitching. Again, I would not attempt a C-Section or use glue on internal wounds.

 

[dun]

I asked the vet about C-sections. He said it typically takes only about 5 minutes to get the calf out, another 2-4 hours to get the cows put back together. He did one a couple of years ago at Columbia and the taped it and use it for training now.

 

[milkmaid]

I'd be a little reluctant to use glue unless the cut was in an area that wasn't likely to come open as the animal moves. In my case the surgery site also had too much tension on it; it had to be stitched to keep it closed.

 

[Boldcat]

I do everything possible to avoid calving problems like using calving ease bulls on heifers and inducing when I feel it's appropriate.This year I still had to jack out 3 .
I was talking about pulling calves with my neighbor and when I mentioned inducing he had a fit .
Then he went on to tell me about the calf he had recently pulled with the tractor and killed both cow and calf . But at least his herd was free of drugs.

 

[TexasBred]

I do everything possible to avoid calving problems like using calving ease bulls on heifers and inducing when I feel it's appropriate.This year I still had to jack out 3 .
I was talking about pulling calves with my neighbor and when I mentioned inducing he had a fit .
Then he went on to tell me about the calf he had recently pulled with the tractor and killed both cow and calf . But at least his herd was free of drugs.

God that stinks.....guy should be horse whipped. Knew of a guy once who claimed that when he had one having problems calving he would attach a rope to the feet of the calf...tie it to a fence and then stick her with a hot shot. Sounds sickening.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

I do everything possible to avoid calving problems like using calving ease bulls on heifers and inducing when I feel it's appropriate.This year I still had to jack out 3 .
I was talking about pulling calves with my neighbor and when I mentioned inducing he had a fit .
Then he went on to tell me about the calf he had recently pulled with the tractor and killed both cow and calf . But at least his herd was free of drugs.

God that stinks.....guy should be horse whipped. Knew of a guy once who claimed that when he had one having problems calving he would attach a rope to the feet of the calf...tie it to a fence and then stick her with a hot shot. Sounds sickening.

you right it do

 

[backhoeboogie]

I'd be a little reluctant to use glue unless the cut was in an area that wasn't likely to come open as the animal moves. In my case the surgery site also had too much tension on it; it had to be stitched to keep it closed.

The worst experience I ever had was trying to put a horse's face back together, at 2 a.m. with flashlights, in the rain, using fishing string and a plain old sewing needle. I had tried to bend the needles twice and they simply broke. They were high tensile steel and would not bend. So I had to use a straight needle. The horse had a V flap of hide about 10 inches long hanging from his face and didn't want me near it. No pain meds were available either.

I got it done but my nerves were on edge before it was over. If I had known about super glue at the time, I would have merely shaved hair and glued the skin flap back after flushing the wound.

 

[milkmaid]

I got it done but my nerves were on edge before it was over. If I had known about super glue at the time, I would have merely shaved hair and glued the skin flap back after flushing the wound.

I'll bet! At the very least glue could hold until the next day when the animal could be worked somewhere dry and in the daylight.

I purchased some surgical needles, catgut, etc recently so if I ever have an emergency like that (mine tend to come on Christmas Eve, Memorial Day, etc) I can put the animal back together at least well enough that it holds until a vet can see it without costing me an arm and a leg. (As a side note, the price on that stuff is the real reason surgeries are so expensive! -- needle holders themselves are $70-100+, and the spool of catgut was $102 at my vet's cost. )

 

[Bez+]

I got it done but my nerves were on edge before it was over. If I had known about super glue at the time, I would have merely shaved hair and glued the skin flap back after flushing the wound.

I'll bet! At the very least glue could hold until the next day when the animal could be worked somewhere dry and in the daylight.

I purchased some surgical needles, catgut, etc recently so if I ever have an emergency like that (mine tend to come on Christmas Eve, Memorial Day, etc) I can put the animal back together at least well enough that it holds until a vet can see it without costing me an arm and a leg. (As a side note, the price on that stuff is the real reason surgeries are so expensive! -- needle holders themselves are $70-100+, and the spool of catgut was $102 at my vet's cost. )

We are pretty good at cutting and sewing on my place - but the one thing that makes it a he!! of a lot easier to accomplish is a cheap bottle of Lidocaine and some knowledge on how to use it.

Folks attempting major surgery or large horn cutting or whatever that have never used this stuff will not believe the difference in the animals behaviour.

Freeze that cow and it will stand right there and chew it's cud while you do a C-section or repair a big cut / hole or whatever.

Stuff is cheap and takes a heck of a lot of stress out of the animal - plus it keeps us from getting hurt trying to calm down or restrain an animal that is fighting to get away from the cause of the pain.

Bez+

 

[milkmaid]

We are pretty good at cutting and sewing on my place - but the one thing that makes it a he!! of a lot easier to accomplish is a cheap bottle of Lidocaine and some knowledge on how to use it.

Good point. I have a bottle on hand... useful for everything from surgeries to spinal blocks. I strongly dislike cutting into or stitching up any animal without Lidocaine, no matter how minor a cut/stitch job it may be.

Definitely makes them much more cooperative!

 

[backhoeboogie]

We are pretty good at cutting and sewing on my place - but the one thing that makes it a he!! of a lot easier to accomplish is a cheap bottle of Lidocaine and some knowledge on how to use it.

Good point. I have a bottle on hand... useful for everything from surgeries to spinal blocks. I strongly dislike cutting into or stitching up any animal without Lidocaine, no matter how minor a cut/stitch job it may be.

Definitely makes them much more cooperative!

Did ya'll get that from the vet? I have not seen it at any of the feed stores. The stuff I now have was gifted to me and it is not Lidocaine. I don't remember the name at the moment.

 

[milkmaid]

You can get it from the vet or really anywhere as long as you have a prescription for it. $3/50mL. It's wonderful stuff.

 

[3waycross]

You can get it from the vet or really anywhere as long as you have a prescription for it. $3/50mL. It's wonderful stuff.

Milkmaid do you have any specific instructions for it's use. I've seen it administered a lot of times but was never schooled on exactly how to use it.