Pulled Another Dead One

[randiliana]

Well, this just sucks. Lost that set of twins, now tonight we lost another one. Same scenario, cow was calving, but never seemed in active labour. In fact, this one never even had her tail up, never seemed to be in real labour, just showing signs that she was uncomfortable, and she was 'going' to calve. No reason to worry, at least usually. Of course, we weren't watching her real close, we had gone for a calf (for the cow that lost the twins) this morning, this afternoon was our Figure Skating Carnival. Normally, I am out every 2-4 hours, just because I am bored, but not today. Suppose if I had been out and about like normal, I may have picked up on the problem earlier, but, maybe not.

Here is what we noticed. #31 calved this morning, #24 was kinda hanging around with her. #24 stayed separate from the main herd for parts of the day, did a little wandering, but not a lot. At 1pm (when I left to go to the rink) she was standing off by herself. No other signs that she was in labour. At 3 pm (when hubby left for rink) she was up at the feed bunk. We got home at 6:30 pm, and now, she is finally showing signs of being in labour. Tail up, laying there pushing, up and down some.

When we walked over to look at her, there was no waterbag, but she seemed to be working awful hard with no other signs. Now we brought her to the barn, mostly because of the cold wind. Figured maybe we should check her, she just didn't 'look' right. Got her caught, and I reached in and in and in :shock: , and finally I found the bottom jaw. No feet. Great, an upside down calf . I am not strong enough, so hubby goes in and manages to get it straightened out. Start to pull, but the head keeps slipping down. So now we go for the snare. Cow has enough room, I can easily get my hand between her pelvis and the calf's head. Get the snare on finally (it is always fun to work with) and put the handle on it. Hubby pulls the legs, I pull the head and everything comes pretty easily. As soon as the head comes through there are no more troubles. But, the calf doesn't look good coming out (I had thought that the calf wasn't too lively when we were working on it). Dead calf, no sign of life at all. No heart beat.

We immediately dragged the dead calf away, as she hadn't smelled it yet, and went and got the 'new' calf from the other cow (since there was no bonding there yet). I figured that we really didn't need to fight with 2 cows, when the one would take the calf immediately if we gave it to her. I think she will take it no problem, but the calf might not be so easily convinced. Now, we still need another calf for the other cow. Darn it all........

 

[Keren]

Ah, that sucks.

Seems to be a lot of people having trouble with cows not pushing lately.

Kinda confused -- why did you take the calf from the other cow?

 

[randiliana]

Ah, that sucks.

Seems to be a lot of people having trouble with cows not pushing lately.

Kinda confused -- why did you take the calf from the other cow?

The other cow (#48) lost her calves a few days ago. We just got the calf this morning, and #48 hadn't taken it. The second cow (#24) had a dead calf, which we removed before she had a chance to bond. If #48 had taken the calf immediately we would have left them alone, but because she didn't, and #24 would take to it without a fight we decided it would be easier to give this calf to #24, rather than wait, and then end up having to fight with 2 cows instead of just 1. Clear as mud :???: ;-)

 

[randiliana]

And, now, to clarify on why these cows didn't push. Most cows won't push, or not really hard until something enters the birth canal, be it feet, head, whatever. They need something to stimulate them. This is why breech, uplide down or other malpresentations can be hard to detect.

The first cow had dead twins. They were coming in the proper position, but because they were dead the first calf never came up into the birth canal. He just floated there, with his feet right at the pelvic opening. This one was even worse, because he felt like he was coming in the proper position, so we left him a bit longer.

The second cow had an upside down calf. In this case, nothing enters the birth canal because the calf is so completely out of position that nothing CAN enter. In this case, we reached in and found only the bottom jaw, the legs were curled up against it's chest. As soon as we (DH) got the calf flipped over, and the legs up into the birth canal the cow started pushing. Which then made things interesting cause we couldn't get the head to stay in position. That was probably a result of the calf being dead, because she had enough room, it wasn't that hard of a pull.

 

[bward]

A vet once told me that a calf helps himself get born by unfolding his legs and extending his feet above his head (which when you think about it is kind of an unatural position for a calf) She said that often when a calf is malpresented like that or is still kind of folded up its becasue the calf is already dead. Actually when you really think about it, its kind of amazing that the uterus is capable of taking a 100 pound calf manuevering it from being on its back to upright, and facing forward, to being pushed out the door, as many successful times as it does.

 

[bward]

Oh and I am sorry for your loss. I know it can be frustrating to lose a calf at any time but when you get a string of bad luck like that it really takes the fun out of it.
We lost a set of twins yesterday morning. Both born alive and froze to death completely exposed to -20 windchill. Both just barely alive when found but just too far gone to bring back. First really cold morning in over a month and 2 cows decide to start the calving season. The other cow found a sheltered spot out of the wind and her calf is a firecracker. One smart cow, one dumb cow.

 

[nrs farm]

And, now, to clarify on why these cows didn't push. Most cows won't push, or not really hard until something enters the birth canal, be it feet, head, whatever. They need something to stimulate them. This is why breech, uplide down or other malpresentations can be hard to detect.

The first cow had dead twins. They were coming in the proper position, but because they were dead the first calf never came up into the birth canal. He just floated there, with his feet right at the pelvic opening. This one was even worse, because he felt like he was coming in the proper position, so we left him a bit longer.

The second cow had an upside down calf. In this case, nothing enters the birth canal because the calf is so completely out of position that nothing CAN enter. In this case, we reached in and found only the bottom jaw, the legs were curled up against it's chest. As soon as we (DH) got the calf flipped over, and the legs up into the birth canal the cow started pushing. Which then made things interesting cause we couldn't get the head to stay in position. That was probably a result of the calf being dead, because she had enough room, it wasn't that hard of a pull.

Along these lines...here is a link to an article on birth for various livestock animals.

http://www.2farm.co.nz/animal-birth.html

The interesting part to me is in the "birth canal" section in the article. A quote from the article:

"This diagram is of the "birth canal", and a cow in late pregnancy.
The foetus is not in birthing position yet.
Labour has not started.
During the 1st stage of labour: The cervix begins to open (widen). The foetus then
gets itself into the birthing position. ie a diving position, by bringing it's legs up, and it positions it's head so the nose is closest to the cervix. "

I always thought the feet were already in position before labor begins but here and elsewhere I have read where the calves feet extend due to the contractions of the cow. It is not until labor begins that the feet extend. As you noted, a dead calf would not extend it's legs obviously.
I guess, as they say, you're never to old to learn something new.

 

[bigbull338]

man that really sucks to lose 3 calves due to freaky positions in the cow.no wonder the cows didnt show signs of labor.the calves was dead an couldnt get in the birth canal.thats a hard hitt to take losing calves like that.

 

[Victoria]

When it rains it pours.

 

[Victoria]

O First really cold morning in over a month and 2 cows decide to start the calving season.

Isn't that the truth? Had five yesterday, none today now that it is nice out. :roll:

 

[randiliana]

Thanks everyone for the comments. The twins, I am sure were dead before the cow went into labour. But the upside down one, who knows. We have had a number of them, and this is the first dead one.

bward and nrs, I have heard that before, and for the most part I believe it is true. If the calf doesn't do it's part the cow cannot do hers. I have seen too many cows that had malpresentations, especially breech and upside down ones, where the cow never pushed until you got the calf in a birthing position.

It is amazing what you can do with a calf inside the uterus. Went to the vet's this morning, to take a couple of cats to get fixed. I had to wait for the vet, who was doing a C-section on a set of tangled up twins. Once he got them out, you wondered how the heck they ever fit in that cow in the first place. They were a big pair, and were both dead. Too bad for the guy that brought her in. It was their 7th set this spring.

 

[randiliana]

bward, and Victoria, other than these 2 cows, we have been having a wonderful calving season. The weather has been pretty nice, with only a couple of cold days so far. Pulled 1 backwards, 1 out of a heifer and 2 conveniences that we probably could have left, but I am of the belief of better safe than sorry. And then these 2 cows with dead calves. We have mor than 60 out of 140 so far, and there are only 30 that aren't showing heavy right now. Our calving season started about the 5th of March on the main herd.

I expect we will get a cold, stormy few days yet, and have about 10 calves. It always seems to happen.....

Good luck with the rest of your calves. And bward, sorry about your twins. It really sucks to find them in that stage. Still alive, but too late anyways. I feel for you.....

 

[Keren]

;-) Clear as, randi. (Tho it took me a while :lol: )