protocol for dummies

[libby]

I am new to raising calves. I have raised hogs for 15 years and decided to try calves. I have had a lot of trouble with scours and now cough and temps. Can someone give me a list of symptoms and what drug to give and how often. I have been using a vet but $1200 later 8 deads so please help.

 

[flaboy]

I am new to raising calves. I have raised hogs for 15 years and decided to try calves. I have had a lot of trouble with scours and now cough and temps. Can someone give me a list of symptoms and what drug to give and how often. I have been using a vet but $1200 later 8 deads so please help.

I'm sure someone with more knowledge about medicine will give you their opinion. I do have a few questions though. Are these bottle babies? Are these dairy stock? If you have spent $1200 on a vet and lost 8 calves, I would find another vet. Did he at least do a blood test?

Did they have any ticks?
How old are these calves?

Going out on a limb here. I would think it could be Lepto. Could be a couple of things at once. I'm sure someone here will give you more ideas shortly.

 

[Crowderfarms]

If you can give us a little bit more of details, I'm sure we can help you. First off, I'd find another Vet. Today.Unless, you waited to long to call him when problems first started.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Where/type of place did you buy the calves from? Sounds like they were sick or going to be when you bought them.

$1200 in Vet bills is way too much for the problems you described.

Also sounds like the place they came from had a poorly run/unclean facility, didn't keep cattle vaccinated, de-wormed. Also, if they were from a sale barn possible they picked up something from other (unhealthy) cattle.

Unfortunately may be too late to do anything with the calves that are still alive.

 

[dj]

bolus for scours
LA-200 for cough and colds
following label directions for doseages
if I am bottle feeding a milk replacer getting it too "rich"can cause scours

 

[stocky]

make sure you arent over feeding the bottle calves, that will cause scours. Sustain 111 scours tablets and 5 cc's per hundred of baytril will usually take care of the scours and fever and coughing.
When I was a kid, we kept 40 sows and fattened out their pigs each year. It was many years after we stopped fattening out those hogs before we could raise calves in those hog areas. Everytime we put calves in they would get sick and die. I think there was something left from the hog feeding that caused the sick calves.---just a thought from experience

 

[jerry27150]

think stocky may be right. i would keep the calves outside with a shelter. used to raise holstein heifers in a super hutch. movable 12 x 12

 

[libby]

Well I don't know where to start. The calves are bottle/bucket. They came from WI, seemed healthy off the truck. My lack of knowledge is a lot to blame. The calves are in a building only 2 horses have been in. I am using nuflour and LA/tylan right now and banamine for temps along with azimyicin. They seem to be getting better. Nuflour btl says 3 cc every other day, is that enough? I guess I have been worried about overdosing. The vet did not take blood samples.

What concentration on arrival of new calves should the milk be mixed? What contents should I look for in the replacer. There are so many out there.

Thanks for the help

 

[Crowderfarms]

Libby,
The one we use is medicated with Oxytetracycline, and Neomycin, it contains 20% Fat and 20% Protein, it takes 2 8 0z. cups of Milk Replacer to 2 quarts of Water. Most Replacers come with a measuring cup. We use a Replacer mnade by Milk Specialties, and have had OUTSTANDING results. My opinion is stay away from Purina. I may get jumped on for tis statement, but we had too many Scour problems with theirs. We feed them twice a day, and get them started on a high quality starter [18%} medicated. ASAP. Hope you have some better luck! Vet should have pulled blood on em'.

 

[libby]

I did use baytril for scours, didn't touch it. I ended up using immodium and oatmeal and shoved it down their throat. I tried all the stopper uppers and none worked.

The vet said we weren;t mixing the milk strong enough so we worked to increase a little faster. I just want to prevent this next time. The vet thought it was viral. We lost 8 out of 35. The rest look pretty good, then they started with the coughing and temps. I guess 2 died of peritonitis (sp) and the rest from dehydration. The scours was continuaous and like a facet.

I also am not sure if we shoud band or castrate. These little guys have been through so much I think I should wait a little while. They were here 3 weeks on Friday.

 

[libby]

we are using land o lakes, herd maker replacer and it says 20/20 on the label and standard mixing is 10 oz/2 quarts. We had them up to full rate at about 8 days. We started them the first couple days at 5 oz/2 quarts of water twice a day. So that really shouldn't have started the scours would it.

 

[flaboy]

I did use baytril for scours, didn't touch it. I ended up using immodium and oatmeal and shoved it down their throat. I tried all the stopper uppers and none worked.

The vet said we weren;t mixing the milk strong enough so we worked to increase a little faster. I just want to prevent this next time. The vet thought it was viral. We lost 8 out of 35. The rest look pretty good, then they started with the coughing and temps. I guess 2 died of peritonitis (sp) and the rest from dehydration. The scours was continuaous and like a facet.

I also am not sure if we shoud band or castrate. These little guys have been through so much I think I should wait a little while. They were here 3 weeks on Friday.

If the 2 that died from peritonitis had scours I would sure question that diagnosis. Typically peritonitis causes the bowels to not pass material or even gas.

Is your vet a large animal vet? If so give me the name so I can make sure I NEVER use them.

 

[Crowderfarms]

Baytril is better for respiratory problems not scours. Try some oxytetracycline boluses. Main thing is don't let them dehydrate. We use an Electrolyte called Diaque. Made by Boehringer/ Ingelheim Co. It is made to mix with Milk replacers.

 

[stocky]

I give the sustain 3 boluses and the electrolytes for the scours and the baytril to keep them from getting pneumonia in their weakened condition while they have the scours. the baytril doesn't stop the scours, the sustain 3 and electrolytes do that.
it doesnt sound like the milk replacer was mixed strong enough at first, if the recommended dosage was 10 ounces and you started with 5 oz.
next time, when the calves first get there, I would give them all 2 boluses of sustain 3 and 5 ccs of baytril to help with any shipping fever or pneumonia and then feed them the normall recommended level of medicated milk replacer. I have never had good success with a cheap milk replacer, make sure you buy the best the store has, it costs more at first but the calves will do better on it.
I would not band or castrate the calves until they are older and stronger. Let them get through the stress of what is going on now and then they can always be castrated later. I normally dont castrate until 350-450 lbs to get the good growth first----good luck with your calves

 

[Medic24]

Not a fan of purina milk replacer either, BUT, one must understand that they make three, yes, three different types and grades of replacers.

No.100 is a poor mix of soy protein etc.

No 200 is better.
and the No. 300 is the best they make.

Land O'lakes makes a good consistant product, but even they manufacture different grades as well.

 

[dun]

Concerning quality of replacers, only use those that are milk and milk byproducts. I think calves can almost starve on full feed of the soy based junk.

dun

 

[Crowderfarms]

Concerning quality of replacers, only use those that are milk and milk byproducts. I think calves can almost starve on full feed of the soy based junk.

dun

With Milk Replacers, you get what you pay for. Cheap stuff equals scoury Calves, Pot bellies, etc. Pays to go with highest quality, as it pays off in the finished product. Not a game to cut corners on.

 

[Cheyenne]

Hi libby welcome to the board.

From your post I am assuming that you received holsteins or another dairy breed. I had a similar problem with scours with the two holstein heifers I have. I made the mistake of giving them replacer the night I brought them home, instead of electrolytes. Mine came from a dairy and were bottle fed, but they were given milk so the change to replacer was hard on them. It took two weeks for them to get over the scours then. I tried everything I was told to try and everything I read on this board, except the bleach.

In the end what seemed to work was double doses of pepto 2-3 times a day, yogurt and small amounts of hay. I don't know if this combination really worked or not or if they just finally adjusted to the replacer and the calf starter. I feed Vigortone 22NT so I know replacer quality wasn't an issue. Oh, don't forget to give them electrolytes, it is extremely important to keep these little guys hydrated. The yogurt is to put the "good bugs" back in there stomach.

I am new to this board and cattle also, so I am definately not an expert, but hope maybe this little bit of info will help.

 

[bgm]

First off like many have said, find a different vet NOW! I use the land of lakes milk replacer here and have good luck with it. Use the measuring cup that comes with it. I've run into cases where people substituted a measuring cup. What your feeding is dry weight of powder, not measured by fluid ounces. I also use resorb on my scouring calves.

Good luck, keep us posted