protein tubs

[papavillars]

I was reading this forum for advise for or against leaving out protein tubs. Novatech stated that Dun gave him some good advise a couple years ago. I would like to hear that advise because I too am unsure what to do. I am in South Central Texas, fairfield.

 

[novaman]

If your animals need protein, put em out. If they don't, don't. I know that sounds obvious but what else do you want to hear? It all depends on what they are being fed. Poor hay? Good hay? Grazing? It also depends on the animals. Dry cows? Lactating cows? Calves? Protein is expensive so if you don't need it I would use it.

 

[TexasBred]

I was reading this forum for advise for or against leaving out protein tubs. Novatech stated that Dun gave him some good advise a couple years ago. I would like to hear that advise because I too am unsure what to do. I am in South Central Texas, fairfield.

Papa it won't hurt a thing to put the tubs out. Cattle ordinarily will self limit themselves when they meet their daily protein needs....if you're feeding low quality hay they'll ordinarily consume more of the tub. If you put out a higher quality hay they'll consume less or possibly none. Whatever you do be sure and buy a good all natural protein cooked tub (not the Purina red poured tubs). ;-) Should cost you from $80 up for a 200-225 lb. tub.

 

[farmwriter]

I was reading this forum for advise for or against leaving out protein tubs. Novatech stated that Dun gave him some good advise a couple years ago. I would like to hear that advise because I too am unsure what to do. I am in South Central Texas, fairfield.

Papa it won't hurt a thing to put the tubs out. Cattle ordinarily will self limit themselves when they meet their daily protein needs....if you're feeding low quality hay they'll ordinarily consume more of the tub. If you put out a higher quality hay they'll consume less or possibly none. Whatever you do be sure and buy a good all natural protein cooked tub (not the Purina red poured tubs). ;-) Should cost you from $80 up for a 200-225 lb. tub.

I've found this to be true for our cattle. They're pretty good at getting what they need.

 

[bigbull338]

i put out 10 protine tubbs a week ago.because we are having such a cold wet winter.i figured it would help the cows.im glad we have them out since its so dang cold.put out 2 bales of hay today before the cold blast hits.our cows are eating alot of hay this year.we are runing over 100hd including cows heifers an calves.

 

[Angus Cowman]

i put out 10 protine tubbs a week ago.because we are having such a cold wet winter.i figured it would help the cows.im glad we have them out since its so dang cold.put out 2 bales of hay today before the cold blast hits.our cows are eating alot of hay this year.we are runing over 100hd including cows heifers an calves.

What is alot of hay talked to a buddy of mine today and he says they are putting out between 200-250 1600lb 5x6bales a day right now cause of the snow

 

[papavillars]

anguscowman, obviously your friend has a lot more cows than my measly thirty momma cows and calves. I figured that it would not hurt the cows but thr first stated that dun had some sage advise and I wanted to make sure I did not miss something important. I had the ag agent out today and he said the cows looked real healthy, good shiny coats and could not see the last two ribs.The only concern was that he noticed a couple of cow pies were not pie shape but a little clumpy. Thanks everyone for the advise. i am sure I will be asking a lot of question in the future....papa

 

[Angus Cowman]

anguscowman, obviously your friend has a lot more cows than my measly thirty momma cows and calves. I figured that it would not hurt the cows but thr first stated that dun had some sage advise and I wanted to make sure I did not miss something important. I had the ag agent out today and he said the cows looked real healthy, good shiny coats and could not see the last two ribs.The only concern was that he noticed a couple of cow pies were not pie shape but a little clumpy. Thanks everyone for the advise. i am sure I will be asking a lot of question in the future....papa

the manure test is about as good as any on measuring if they are getting enough protein usually
I have used protein tubs in the past on the whole herd and I am still using them on some first calf pairs and on my replacement hfrs
a couple of ???
are these bred cows or cows with calves on them?
if bred what stage of preg are the in ?
if they are early 2nd stage as long as you are keeping them full you should be ok with less protein
if they are late 2nd or 3rd stage or if they have calves on nowI would supplement them and if
i have fed several different types some I like better than others

 

[hayray]

They are conveinient to use, however very expensive based on $/lb. of protein. Whenever I have had low quality hay I was trying to get an extra 1 to 2 lbs. of protein per day into them and that was hard to do with a protein tub. The highest I could get was a 40% all natural tub with average consumption of 1 to 2 lb.s per day. I think my protein was costing me over $800/ton last I figured it out. When hay is reasonably priced it is far cheaper to by alfalfa hay, $/lb. of protein is far cheaper. The ethanol industry killed my source of roasted soybeans, which were easy to feed on a pasture situation. Last year TSC had a 20% range cube for around $300/ton. I have decided for me it is hard to beat the economics and efficient use of labor of feeding a higher protein hay.

 

[TexasBred]

They are conveinient to use, however very expensive based on $/lb. of protein. Whenever I have had low quality hay I was trying to get an extra 1 to 2 lbs. of protein per day into them and that was hard to do with a protein tub. The highest I could get was a 40% all natural tub with average consumption of 1 to 2 lb.s per day. I think my protein was costing me over $800/ton last I figured it out. When hay is reasonably priced it is far cheaper to by alfalfa hay, $/lb. of protein is far cheaper. The ethanol industry killed my source of roasted soybeans, which were easy to feed on a pasture situation. Last year TSC had a 20% range cube for around $300/ton. I have decided for me it is hard to beat the economics and efficient use of labor of feeding a higher protein hay.

If you're considering protein units only cost per protein unit might be higher on low quality hay than for tubs, good hay or just about anything else. What source of protein did your tub supplier use in order to manufacture a 40% all natural tub and sill include all the cal, phos, mag, mico minerals and vitamins and still have room for "molasses" in the tub??

 

[novaman]

They are conveinient to use, however very expensive based on $/lb. of protein. Whenever I have had low quality hay I was trying to get an extra 1 to 2 lbs. of protein per day into them and that was hard to do with a protein tub. The highest I could get was a 40% all natural tub with average consumption of 1 to 2 lb.s per day. I think my protein was costing me over $800/ton last I figured it out. When hay is reasonably priced it is far cheaper to by alfalfa hay, $/lb. of protein is far cheaper. The ethanol industry killed my source of roasted soybeans, which were easy to feed on a pasture situation. Last year TSC had a 20% range cube for around $300/ton. I have decided for me it is hard to beat the economics and efficient use of labor of feeding a higher protein hay.

If you're considering protein units only cost per protein unit might be higher on low quality hay than for tubs, good hay or just about anything else. What source of protein did your tub supplier use in order to manufacture a 40% all natural tub and sill include all the cal, phos, mag, mico minerals and vitamins and still have room for "molasses" in the tub??

I'm wondering about the all natural as well. I can't even get a 30% that is all natural. They get pretty expensive when they are all natural anyway.

I was also wondering if most people realize that the cows will clean up more of the poorer quality feed when they have tubs available. Therefore, the cows are taking in more poor hay and extracting a little extra protein from the hay they otherwise wouldn't have consumed. This may not add up to much but it's something.

 

[1982vett]

I used them heavily last year, not so much this year. The last I bought was in mid-October. Tubs still have a little in em. Last year they were going thru 3 225# tubs a week. Difference is I've got oats to graze this year. Saw a several calves around one earlier this morning when I made my drive-thru checking things. Cows are pretty much ignoring them at this point.

Tubs will help to get them to go after the frosted out grasses and that hay that just isn't up to their liking and needs a little help. My opinion, this......

If your animals need protein, put em out. If they don't, don't. I know that sounds obvious but what else do you want to hear? It all depends on what they are being fed. Poor hay? Good hay? Grazing? It also depends on the animals. Dry cows? Lactating cows? Calves? Protein is expensive so if you don't need it I would(n't)* use it.

and this............

Papa it won't hurt a thing to put the tubs out. Cattle ordinarily will self limit themselves when they meet their daily protein needs....if you're feeding low quality hay they'll ordinarily consume more of the tub. If you put out a higher quality hay they'll consume less or possibly none. Whatever you do be sure and buy a good all natural protein cooked tub (not the Purina red poured tubs). ;-) Should cost you from $80 up for a 200-225 lb. tub.

pretty much covers it.

I'll have to add, I'm not against using the high protien tubs (those containing urea). It is just my choice not to feed urea.

* wouldn't is what I believe novaman meant to say.

 

[hayray]

They are conveinient to use, however very expensive based on $/lb. of protein. Whenever I have had low quality hay I was trying to get an extra 1 to 2 lbs. of protein per day into them and that was hard to do with a protein tub. The highest I could get was a 40% all natural tub with average consumption of 1 to 2 lb.s per day. I think my protein was costing me over $800/ton last I figured it out. When hay is reasonably priced it is far cheaper to by alfalfa hay, $/lb. of protein is far cheaper. The ethanol industry killed my source of roasted soybeans, which were easy to feed on a pasture situation. Last year TSC had a 20% range cube for around $300/ton. I have decided for me it is hard to beat the economics and efficient use of labor of feeding a higher protein hay.

If you're considering protein units only cost per protein unit might be higher on low quality hay than for tubs, good hay or just about anything else. What source of protein did your tub supplier use in order to manufacture a 40% all natural tub and sill include all the cal, phos, mag, mico minerals and vitamins and still have room for "molasses" in the tub??

It was a Crystallix tub so it should be easy to look up, but I don't remember what the source was, it has been a couple of years since I used them. A 20% tub I just don't see you being able to get enough protein to make a big difference for the cost.

 

[bigbull338]

put out hay today.an checked the tubbs.an the cows have only ate about 1/2 in 2 tubbs.also put out 100lbs of feed.an very few came up to eat any feed.

 

[hillrancher]

We have used the tubs the last 4 years. We put them out in September keep them out until they are not eaten, usualy mid or last of April.
We only used 3 tubs until 10 day ago when the snow came started feeding hay. Going through about 4 per week on 70 head of mothers. Have 2 more pastures of mothers they don't eat them hardly at all. We also keep them in the pasture with weaned calves and heifers. They will only lick them in real cold or snow weather. They get better hay than the mothers also. It dpepends on the pasture if it is fertlized limed and type of grass on the amout of protein they will take in. The reason I am using them they are cheaper than the liquid. I can put them out myself don't have to wait on some one else.

 

[novaman]

We have used the tubs the last 4 years. We put them out in September keep them out until they are not eaten, usualy mid or last of April.
We only used 3 tubs until 10 day ago when the snow came started feeding hay. Going through about 4 per week on 70 head of mothers. Have 2 more pastures of mothers they don't eat them hardly at all. We also keep them in the pasture with weaned calves and heifers. They will only lick them in real cold or snow weather. They get better hay than the mothers also. It dpepends on the pasture if it is fertlized limed and type of grass on the amout of protein they will take in. The reason I am using them they are cheaper than the liquid. I can put them out myself don't have to wait on some one else.

Could you explain how you came about this conclusion. Lick tubs cost me 40 cents a pound whereas I can get liquid for 14.

 

[SRBeef]

I don't know that I would use the tubs as a primary source of protein. If your hay is reasonable (7-9%?) they should be able to consume enough hay. Or there are lots of other sources of protein.

Where the tubs are extremely valuable, in my opinion, is getting vitamins and minerals into the cattle, especially calves and bred heifers & cows who will be calving in the next few months. I think Crystalyx Mineralyx while an expensive if used as a source of protein, is cheap when looked at as a vitamin source... a bit of copper or selenium or vitamin E etc can be worth its weight in gold if it gives you a healthy, easily born calf. And who knows if they are all present in your local soils and hay???

Between my hay and grazing corn my cattle get plenty of protein, energy, roughage and probably most other nutrients. But selenium and copper are known to be lacking in my area. Mineral (not protein) tubs are like buying insurance, to me.

In my opinion, mineral deficiencies are responsible for a lot of the troublesome health problems some folks see in their herds. I have put out dry mineral but it is just not as paletable as these tubs. I WANT them to consume the tubs, at a reasonable rate.

If they are consuming a lot of the tub, per head, that means the tubs are either like candy or they really need something in it. Cattle know what they need to be healthy. Most tubs have some molasses in them but the Mineralyx is not really being consumed as candy as far as I can see. Some of the stuff they need may just not taste very good in its raw form. Sort of like making kids vitamins taste good? Maybe not ideal philosophically but it gets the job done.

I put out dry mineral and several months later it was still there except as solid as a rock and definitely never going to be consumed.

jmho. Jim

Look at the ingredient list in Mineralyx:

http://www.crystalyx.com/beef/pdfs/Mineral-lyx.pdf

 

[novaman]

SRB, have you tried different loose minerals or just one? I know there are some that cows just won't touch and others that they take in like nobodies business. While I don't doubt the mineralyx works for you, it doesn't look like it would be the greatest way to get the proper minerals in your cows. The mineral levels look subpar at best and I have to wonder how the cost would compare.

 

[SRBeef]

I've tried the dry mineral which my local feed store says every one in the area uses and they have sold for years. I even bought a couple bags of kelp meal to see if they would consume that. Same thing - almost no consumption. At least the kelp didn't turn into rock!

The mineralyx was suggested to me by a good friend and neighbor who uses it. I think it is tough to define a real cost comparison. The mineralyx is expensive to buy but the 250 lb tubs last me a long time. I can tell when consumption varies that there is something in there that they need.

In the end, the result of a good mineral program is good herd health and easy calving. What is the cost/benefit ratio on that? How do you measure it if I don't have a control group with no mineral, or a different dry mineral, next to them? That is not something I can or want to do.

I don't understand how you can say the contents of the mineralyx as in the pdf file are "sub par"??? Maybe as a protein source but that is not what it is used for. The numbers compare very well to other dry and tubs I've looked at.

In this case I am going by the philosophy of "if it isn't broken, don't fix it" and will stay with mineralyx.

Jim

 

[TexasBred]

Jim, historically Crytstalix has produced very high quality tubs....everyone has been chasing them for years. As for the amount of vitamins and minerals....keep in mind that consumption on this product is 1 lb. whereas consumption on dry mineral ordinarily is about 4 ounces...multiply all the guarantees on the tub by 4 and you'll get the equivalent for dry minerl. Looks fine to me and the 6% crude protein is just a little bonus. The only negative was the deposit on the returnable tub...If they haven't already done it hopefully soon they'll get away from that.