Property Markers

[ChrisB]

I want to build a fence on some property and have a few questions. The legal description is South 1/2 of NW 1/4 of section 30. The property across the road is a full 160 in the legal description and has corner markers in the center of the road on both ends. First question - the new property is listed as 78 acres and not 80, which seems to be common for parcels of land, why is that? The second question - When measuring 1320 feet from each property marker on the road they overlap about 9 feet, why is that? When measuring from the South marker, the line looks to be right on the assumed line (old fence) but when measuring from the North marker the property line is about 9 feet south of the assumed line. Would you feel comfortable building fence in same location as old fence under these circumstances? If I build fence straight neighbor on the North would gain about 25 feet in middle as my field follows the old fence which appears to drift onto his property according to aerial map.

Any ballpark figures on a survey of an 80 acre parcel with a road east and west lines and fields on north and south lines?

 

[Nesikep]

I'd guess the 2 acres is legal right of way for the road or something?
I'd talk to a surveyor about that and get it done right!

 

[True Grit Farms]

For dang sure you don't want to do any fencing according to an aerial map.

 

[callmefence]

If you're not sure you need to hire a survey. Period. No if,ands or buts. What's ok today may not be ok tomorrow. Declared property lines by old fences are only good until someone hires a legal survey. Then they are useless.

 

[Caustic Burno]

If you're not sure you need to hire a survey. Period. No if,ands or buts. What's ok today may not be ok tomorrow. Declared property lines by old fences are only good until someone hires a legal survey. Then they are useless.

Amen
Fence means nothing only a legal survey counts.

 

[greybeard]

Get a copy of the most recent survey and find the corner markers.
Build the fence in alignment between the corners...straight line unless the description calls out a dogleg.

 

[cowboy43]

Have it surveyed and let the neighbor know what you are doing before building the fence, might stop some court cost later on.

 

[callmefence]

Get a copy of the most recent survey and find the corner markers.
Build the fence in alignment between the corners...straight line unless the description calls out a dogleg.

That's what he's doing Einstein.. and things ain't jiving. Or there's pins missing or moved.

I want to build a fence on some property and have a few questions. The legal description is South 1/2 of NW 1/4 of section 30. The property across the road is a full 160 in the legal description and has corner markers in the center of the road on both ends. First question - the new property is listed as 78 acres and not 80, which seems to be common for parcels of land, why is that? The second question - When measuring 1320 feet from each property marker on the road they overlap about 9 feet, why is that? When measuring from the South marker, the line looks to be right on the assumed line (old fence) but when measuring from the North marker the property line is about 9 feet south of the assumed line. Would you feel comfortable building fence in same location as old fence under these circumstances? If I build fence straight neighbor on the North would gain about 25 feet in middle as my field follows the old fence which appears to drift onto his property according to aerial map.

Any ballpark figures on a survey of an 80 acre parcel with a road east and west lines and fields on north and south lines?

Ballpark on pretty easy country . Reference or bench marks easily found etc.
200.00 to show and 100.00 for every pin you need dropped.

 

[Brute 23]

Title search and survey before you do any thing.

People screw that kind of stuff up all the time. I cant tell you how many issues come up on some of my family's property. As all the land gets tracked up around us there seems to be more and more errors. I feel bad for them.

 

[wbvs58]

I spent $3000 on a survey on a block I bought before Xmas and have reclaimed 25 acres along the back boundary of good cleared country. Money well spent. Thank you neighbours for clearing it for me.

Ken

 

[snoopdog]

Survey.

 

[talltimber]

Chris, how's this situation shaping up? I meant to post a response before and never did. As far as your deeded acreage, did you know that the errors are thrown into the west side of the west sections of a township, which S30 is one.

 

[ChrisB]

Chris, how's this situation shaping up? I meant to post a response before and never did. As far as your deeded acreage, did you know that the errors are thrown into the west side of the west sections of a township, which S30 is one.

That make sense about the errors being thrown on the west sections.

The fencing project is on hold until crops are planted. But the south line is all staked out and ready. Haven't talked to a surveyor yet, but since we only need the north line it shouldn't cost too much. (I hope.)

 

[sstterry]

Get a survey. A close friend of mine recently had a problem with a neighbor over a boundary. I have known that property since the 70s' and I knew my guy was in the right. Turns out neighbor moved the markers! The new survey took care of all problems (of course I told the surveyor that might be the case and to check the markers).

 

[bird dog]

A lot of these old surveys are done with a chain and a pin. I know, I did some of them. Modern ones with GPS may come up significantly different. Also some surveyors may interpret the boundaries different then others. Sounds stupid but surveys that go to the center of a creek are sometimes way out of whack because of creek changes or like on my place, the corps of engineers decided that straightening the creek would be a good idea. Some places haven't been surveyed in a hundred years so the surveyor takes what he thinks is right and sets new pins.
Get a survey done and as mentioned, let your neighbor know any problems before you start. You may want to put it in writing if their is a big difference between old and new.

 

[greybeard]

Sounds stupid but surveys that go to the center of a creek are sometimes way out of whack because of creek changes

Yep...sometimes you gain some land, sometimes you lose some.
My East property line is center of San Jacinto River channel. It's slowly been encroaching to the West for decades. Center of the river Eastward is US Govt land so I guess the taxpayer gets a little more property..

 

[talltimber]

The thing is, "just staking a line" can turn into a full blown survey if boundary corners cannot be located and verified. I take it that you do not have a survey plat? Particularly a recorded survey? That is a map of the survey by the surveyor who performed it, indicating line dimensions (distance, direction, angles), descriptions of monuments found and set, whether it's stones, axles, rebar, capped rebar, trees (or witness trees), metes and bounds calls, natural physical monuments. Anything that would help put the line on the ground. If all you have is the PLSS aliquot description, they may have to break down the section. That means go out until they find a section corner, quarter corner, center of section, anything to put this thing on the ground. I wouldn't recommend you using a phone or handheld outdoorsman type gps to try to do anything except narrow a search area for one of the previously mentioned monuments. In sorry reception areas even survey grade gps has limitations and less than acceptable results, especially elevation (which you won't require). How did you stake the south line, by the fenceline?

I reread the op. It wouldn't surprise me to hear that the center of section (your se corner, if I understand your description correctly) lies in the road, or thereabouts. In flat country in particular, around here anyway, roads and ditches are commonly placed on section lines. It may be off the centerline a little bit, sometimes edge of the road, but nearby. The road on the west side isn't refered to as township road is it? lol A lot of them are, for good reason. With roads on both ends, and you said you have at least the two corners in the road on the east, and surveyors can find something on the west side, and it's verifiable, then a survey may not cost you as much as you think. I would check on that. Also, if you do get it surveyed, record it. The more info we can find at the courthouse, the cheaper the survey to those in the area later. And maybe some neighbors in the area have already done that. There may be records already at the courthouse to aid the surveyors, not provided by you. You can access all this yourself at the courthouse too.

 

[plumber_greg]

In Missouri, there is a thing called adverse possession. Agree on a spot for the fence with the neighbor, grant him access to a spot , don't think there's a time constraint on how long it's that way, but it becomes the property line.
That stops the ,"your fence is 1 foot too far over on my side, move it" people causing problems years down the road for someone.

 

[callmefence]

In Missouri, there is a thing called adverse possession. Agree on a spot for the fence with the neighbor, grant him access to a spot , don't think there's a time constraint on how long it's that way, but it becomes the property line.
That stops the ,"your fence is 1 foot too far over on my side, move it" people causing problems years down the road for someone.

Adverse possession is squatters rights. It by definition does not require mutual consent.
That would be a boundary line agreement or declared boundary. It will be shown on a legal Platt as "line called with fence" however legal corner monuments will still be marked as their legal location. Used to be very common to run a fence around obstacles (ie. Big trees) on my side here , on your side on the next.
Thing is unless these zigs, zags and bows are shown on the legal Platt. Ie. Shows a straight line between corners it will not stand if contested. We make either the customer give corners, or hire a legal survey. Then build 4" inches inside .

 

[plumber_greg]

I wouldn't argue with you, but here that isn't quite correct. It's an old law that has tried to be changed and has been challenged, but too much trouble and never happens, no matter what is on the plate book.