Pricey Headache is fading

[Supa Dexta]

So I posted this picture the other month - I paid a bit of money for this embryo cow as a heifer, she's a 2014 model, and Im just getting some data back on her first heifer she had in 2016.

This cow herself is always a fat pig, with a nice big udder - but always has a bad edema from her back teats to her vagina every time she calves. And then last year she was almost dried up by mid to late summer it looked. So overall I'm not too happy with her. But I kept her first heifer calf from 2016 because the genetics should be in there, and frankly I wanted to get atleast a few calves out of the cow to pay back some of what I feel owed.

The cow always has poorer looking calves, that end up around 2.0 lb a day at weaning (I would usually cull for this). However her heifers first calf just went thru the scale at 203 days @ 670lbs and thats after being weaned a week, so it would have went backwards some there also, so Im happy with seeing that from a first timer - the cows calf was 210 days @ 522lbs to compare. Back in 2016 the heifer weaned at 480lbs @ 196 days! But I gave her a chance and she was up for the challenge.

All in all I think I'll hopefully get some females out of her to make it worth while in the long run.. Can't say for sure whats wrong with the cow herself, possibly fed too hard when she was young and ruined her udder - looks deceiving though, as she has a nice large udder, but that edema always looks bad.

Yet another reason scales will tell you the real story of whats going on - this red calf doesn't look too bad in the photo, but isn't where it should be compared to its herd mates.

 

[bball]

SD, what is your usual cut off for daily rate of gain? In other words, what is your minimum before you would cull the cow?

 

[Supa Dexta]

I like to see 2.5+ from a cow, some heifers that get drug down may be around ~2.3's, but they better pick it up year 2. Anything in low 2s or below are junk calves here as I typically have good grass for them so no excuse.

My highest was 4.42 <not sure why, typically around 3.3/3.4, lowest was a twin who's mother didn't take to her well, @ 1.76 - Only one I had in the 1's.

 

[Nesikep]

it sucks when expensive or promising cattle don't live up to the job.. My nicest looking Limo sired cow was a failure.. The boney racks that look like a can of smashed arseholes make good calves though.. maybe with some time they'll fill in a bit

 

[bball]

I like to see 2.5+ from a cow, some heifers that get drug down may be around ~2.3's, but they better pick it up year 2. Anything in low 2s or below are junk calves here as I typically have good grass for them so no excuse.

My highest was 4.42 <not sure why, typically around 3.3/3.4, lowest was a twin who's mother didn't take to her well, @ 1.76 - Only one I had in the 1's.

Do you subtract birth weight or do you simply use the total weight produced at weaning divided by number of days. I confess, I do not subtract birth weight. I do track each and every cow for "ADG" and "average daily dollars"(another measure of quality produced?).
I appreciate your feedback on this topic.

 

[bball]

it sucks when expensive or promising cattle don't live up to the job.. My nicest looking Limo sired cow was a failure.. The boney racks that look like a can of smashed arseholes make good calves though.. maybe with some time they'll fill in a bit

Nesi, I have a couple of these cows and am always stunned by the size and quality of calf they will produce. My FIL gives my grief sometimes for hanging onto a couple of them; I just respond with the numbers they produce and he is always shocked.

 

[Supa Dexta]

Yes, every calf is weighed and subtracted from weaning weight.

At the very least you should use an avg BW, But I prefer knowing the whole story. Atleast for now, Gathering BW's isn't the most fun. But I enjoy the data in the end.

 

[Nesikep]

Here are a few sisters
Oldest sister, definitely the nicest looking, raises good calves


full sister, year younger, despite that she's not a whole lot to look at her calves are really nice, maybe not as heavy as her sisters but thicker


skinny maternal sister, Limo sired.. raised a heck of a calf for her first time.. I'll see how she does in a year or two


Youngest sister, linebred.. large framed, we'll see how she does next year

 

[bball]

Yes, every calf is weighed and subtracted from weaning weight.

At the very least you should use an avg BW, But I prefer knowing the whole story. Atleast for now, Gathering BW's isn't the most fun. But I enjoy the data in the end.

I went back and punched up a few numbers using an 85# BW average. Dropped the numbers from originals by 0.35 to 0.4. Still keeps them in a 2.4 to 2.7 range...like yours, there are a few outliers in either direction.
Thanks for the input on this topic as I have often wondered what others do.
I like the 2.5 mark as a standard. :tiphat:

Edit to add: in comparison to your numbers, it's time I increased pasture quality. You have great numbers. Congratuations!

 

[Ebenezer]

fed too hard when she was young and ruined her udder

My bet, too.

 

[bird dog]

I use the total weight in my decisions. Not feasible for me to weigh calves. I can't really see where the birth weight matters that much especially if you are using low birth weight bulls. I'm sure it matters to you guys up north that need bigger calves.
Anything below 2 for more than one calf is gone but I have some in the 2.25 to 2.4 range. They should be also gone but sometimes its just not worth culling a producing smallish cow when your not going to get but $400 for her. A good 500lb steer will still bring $750 so the math says the return on your sunk costs is most likely better than another animal might be where you have to add money and the results might be worse.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

You may all know, but any milk cells that fill with fat prior to being bred, will NEVER produce milk. So, yes, if she was pushed as a calf up to breeding time, she may not be milking to her genetics.

 

[Nesikep]

I think that happened to some of mine, despite they were never really FAT.. one was from an exceptionally well milking line but could hardly feed her calf at all, and the next year didn't improve

 

[Coosh71]

You may all know, but any milk cells that fill with fat prior to being bred, will NEVER produce milk. So, yes, if she was pushed as a calf up to breeding time, she may not be milking to her genetics.

I'm growing heifers now (530# avg), to breed next May. Currently on grass, salt and mineral and 20+4 (20%protein +4% fat) cake supplement (3-5#/day). Goal at breeding is 800#. Will weigh heifers first week of January to see what adjustments need to be made to help make weight. Question for y'all is... Is this pushing these heifers in your opinion? Cows here get same salt/minerals and 5# of 20+4 every other day. Thanks

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

It depends on their frame size. I feed 5# whole shell corn and free-choice good 16% baleage to my heifers after weaning. They are all 5.5 to 6.5 frame size.
Just keep an eye on them. You do not want to see fat pockets on the sides of their tail head, and you definitely do not want to see fat developing in their udders. Look at them now so you have a good idea what they look like now.
I feel the 20% protein is WAY too high. They need about 14-15% at that weight. I never feed that high a protein.
Corn is 9% and is blended with the 16% hay. If I don't think I have good enough hay, I will add some protein pellets.
20% is more like what you would feed to a new bottle calf (I believe).

 

[Coosh71]

It depends on their frame size. I feed 5# whole shell corn and free-choice good 16% baleage to my heifers after weaning. They are all 5.5 to 6.5 frame size.
Just keep an eye on them. You do not want to see fat pockets on the sides of their tail head, and you definitely do not want to see fat developing in their udders. Look at them now so you have a good idea what they look like now.
I feel the 20% protein is WAY too high. They need about 14-15% at that weight. I never feed that high a protein.
Corn is 9% and is blended with the 16% hay. If I don't think I have good enough hay, I will add some protein pellets.
20% is more like what you would feed to a new bottle calf (I believe).

I appreciate your input. I will watch them for sure. They will also have access to heavy leave hay grazer not cut this fall. Protein on that should be 6-8%. Vet suggested the 20% cake, but also warned and said to watch for too much fat. Some are built heavier than others so may need to split them at some point.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Eye of the Master. That is what I was always taught. You need to learn to observe and watch BCS and manure. The manure will tell you a lot - especially the protein they are getting. Too thick, not enough. Too runny, too much.