Price for ET implantation

[kjonesel]

I am thinking about purchasing some embryos and having them implanted into my cows. The cost on the embryos would be between $400 - $500. I have no idea what to expect the cost to be for the implantation, does anyone have an idea?

 

[WalnutCrest]

Are you using your own cows as recips? Is the work being done on your own farm?

If it's your cows being done at your place, you're looking at something in the range of $50 / implant, plus possibly a farm trip charge and/or some sort of minimum fee (the guys got to make money even if he's only putting in one or two embryos).

If it's your cows at someone elses place (where they're setting up your recips), you'll pay for medicine and/or a flat yardage.

If you're doing a deal w/ someone elses cows, probably you'll pay a pre-agreed to price for all bred recips and the price you pay will include all yardage, drugs and the guys time.

 

[kjonesel]

I would be using my cows and since the nearest vet that does it is 75 miles away he probably wants them at his place.

 

[bse]

I pay $60 per embryo, she comes to my place. I don't like to haul them. I do all the sync myself costs about $18 per head. I'd only put them in the cows that fit the bill to make good recips.

 

[NolanCountyAG]

Thats cheap compared to horses. Around 5k on ET for horses.

 

[kjonesel]

To me that would be affordable as I am looking at doing 10 or so at a time.

 

[Son of Butch]

$80 hd x 10 = $800
$450 embryo x 10 = $4500
40% weaned calf success rate = $200 + 1125 embryo price = $1325 per weaned calf
50% success = $160 + 900 = 1060
60% = $135 + 885 = 1020

Really hurts when an ET calf dies, but it happens, so I would try to factor it in rather than just price per pregnancy.

 

[kjonesel]

I agree, experience and time make you a believer that a 10% loss rate ends up being the norm.

 

[True Grit Farms]

I agree, experience and time make you a believer that a 10% loss rate ends up being the norm.

I don't agree with that statement at all. A 10% death loss is average across the board. Your management and environment will play a huge role in losses. And anyone that's going to spend the money on ET will have very little loss. IMO

 

[Son of Butch]

I agree, experience and time make you a believer that a 10% loss rate ends up being the norm.

I don't agree with that statement at all. A 10% death loss is average across the board. Your management and environment will play a huge role in losses. And anyone that's going to spend the money on ET will have very little loss. IMO

I would prefer see a guy figure it strong (after all it's his money) and see him end up pleasantly surprised.
Rather than poo-poo his own numbers and then see him have a rude awakening.

I'll always remember a friend that took good care of his animals. He took a yearling dairy heifer to the State Fair
40 yrs ago and turned down a $10,000 offer from a competitor who wanted to take her to the World Dairy Expo, that
was back when 10K was really something. I said how can you not take that, and my buddy said if she's worth that this year, just think how much she'll be worth next. Four months later, out of all the heifers in his lot, guess which one was laying dead by the barn door one morning when he went out to milk.
Bad stuff happens to good animals and good cattlemen too.

 

[bse]

In the E T game you should always have in mind, things can go way wrong or do great. I've got a friend that got blanked on 10, you couldn't give him the best embryos in the world now. I've done good and so so, never blanked. I understand it can happen so I just keep doing some of it.
Just because its a E T calf doesn't meen its automatically a good calf either, they need the knife just like any others if there not good enough.

 

[WalnutCrest]

As far as success rates, we're averaging a shade under 60% on our conversion rates over the last couple of years. A client of ours is 8-10 with two more in the tank to go. This guy is absolutely giddy!

 

[kjonesel]

What I was referring to was based on the animals that "unintentionally" leave the herd. This is due to death, cows that are culled prematurely due to injury or illness (which is an unexpected loss), or any other reason. Don't forget about the ice storm a couple of years ago in the upper midwest when they were hauling the dead away in semis or the herds that become diseased and what about the droughts when herds were sold because they were startving. After being around cattle for 48 years I now think back and 10% is probably on the low side.
When it comes to ET this afternoon I spoke with two people who have done it in the past. They both said expect the worst but pay for the best, meaning but A grade embryos and find out who is the best embryologist in your area and pay him what he asks.

 

[Air gator]

There is an idea called the 10,000 hour rule that basically is that in order for you to be really good at a task it takes 10,000 hours of experience....that would apply to embryologists...If you have an experienced person he or she won't implant if everything doesn't feel right in the recip. Sometimes they will use ultrasound to verify the recip is ready. Depending on the breed of your embryo I would say that those embryos should be out of outstanding, way above average cows considering the price you gave. In other words, what price would the calf be at a sale if you were selling it? If you are paying $400 or $500 for an embryo you need to be getting more than $1,800 or $2,000. I personally don't trust some of the prices I see on some of these online sales...especially when you constantly see embryos out of the same flush auction after auction. Some breeders even sell embryos without showing you a photo of the actual donor. Your recips need to be in really good body condition, use multimin, good minerals and use either heifers or cows who have weaned their calves to improve your conception rate. Good luck.

 

[kjonesel]

Well said. The value of the end product is very important and with cattle values on the decline it will make the numbers even harder to justify.

 

[WalnutCrest]

I believe the "10,000 hour rule" goes back to Nassim Taleb's writing -- either in Fooled by Randomness or The Black Swan (I forget which). Both are excellent reading (if you get FbR, get the 2nd edition, not the 1st).

Why use heifers -- typically they're going to have more calving difficulties than a proven cow -- especially so since ET calves are (statistically) larger than had they been calved by their natural mother (via some sort of not-well-understood in utero heterosis). I'd never use a heifer for a high-dollar embryo.

 

[Air gator]

Malcolm Gladwell is the one who most often gets credit from his book "Outliers".
Heifers have the highest conception rate as recips. It is the reason they recommend that you only use sexed semen on heifers. As far as calving difficulty....It all depends on the breed of the embryo and the breed of the recip. I use large breed recips...Brahman-Holstein for Angus embryos. In my opinion the biggest risk you have is whether or not the heifer will allow the calf to nurse (assuming that you have checked that there are no freemartins). Otherwise, after heifers the ideal age from my research is 3 to 6 year old cows. I bottle fed heifer calves and produced my own recips(who are tame) who have been good mothers.

 

[Son of Butch]

Useless trivia...
World's first recip was a Jersey...gave birth to a Holstein bull calf, Rockalli BOVA he became a sire at Select Sires.

 

[Air gator]

I have a dairy friend who tells me all the time about how Jerseys calve better than Holsteins. He says that their pelvic bone is flexible or something. Jerseys just grow too slow for me and some of them have a knack for being annoying. I have a Jersey Holstein now that if you left your door unlocked you would probably come home and find her in your bed. She inspects everything. If you had a 1,000 acre spread and there was one 10 foot patch of ground you wanted to keep her off...guess where she would be?