Pot belly calves..

[jdcopkid]

I have 10 calves that I'm pretty certain were just split pairs from the sale barn so weren't weaned great. They are eating well, started them on coastal hay (sent to A&M for analysis) and 14% pellet. They are now on hay, some grazing, and 14% cookie mix mixed with 14% pellet and 25% dried distiller grains. I just started adding the distiller grains last week.

When I compare them to calves with their moms at the sale barn, I have notice the majority of them have a pot belly and not putting on much muscle. It has been described to be as a "leppy belly" or "orphan belly".. my hope is the DDG with the high percentage of rumen undegradable protein will help with the muscle and lean tissue growth.

Is this an issue that will self resolve with time? Am I on the right track with my feed thinking? What other suggestions are out there?
Planning to hit with RALGRO in the next week or so

Attached is one heifer example

 

[wobbie1775]

Im interested in the responses. Im new to the game and have some bottle calves that do/will look like this lol

 

[Warren Allison]

I have 10 calves that I'm pretty certain were just split pairs from the sale barn so weren't weaned great. They are eating well, started them on coastal hay (sent to A&M for analysis) and 14% pellet. They are now on hay, some grazing, and 14% cookie mix mixed with 14% pellet and 25% dried distiller grains. I just started adding the distiller grains last week.

When I compare them to calves with their moms at the sale barn, I have notice the majority of them have a pot belly and not putting on much muscle. It has been described to be as a "leppy belly" or "orphan belly".. my hope is the DDG with the high percentage of rumen undegradable protein will help with the muscle and lean tissue growth.

Is this an issue that will self resolve with time? Am I on the right track with my feed thinking? What other suggestions are out there?
Planning to hit with RALGRO in the next week or so

Attached is one heifer example

And I have heard it called "grass belly", too. Cut way down on the hay and give them mostly feed. The DDG has plenty enough fiber in it. And worm them!

 

[Lucky]

I've noticed it happens when calves are weaned to young. Hopefully it'll straighten itself out.

 

[TCRanch]

I have 3 orphans right now, all potbellied from gorging on grass. They're also eating 20% protein cubes but since they're with the herd, not getting enough to "correct" the belly. They will eventually lose most of the belly but will never look as good as a calf that was on mama for 6-7 months. And you may take a hit if you're selling them at a sale barn. BTDT.

 

[MurraysMutts]

A lot of times they will grow out of it.

At least they know how to eat!

 

[bird dog]

Those type of calves are good to buy in February/March. They sell at a big discount at that time of year. Take them home, give them a round of shots, worming and a implant. Turn them out on grass and by early fall they will way 300 lbs heavier, look a lot better and will sell at a big price to someone looking for wheat calves.

On the other hand, they won't do squat running them through the winter.

 

[jdcopkid]

And I have heard it called "grass belly", too. Cut way down on the hay and give them mostly feed. The DDH has plenty enough fiber in it. And worm them!

I have heard of hay belly too. Maybe that is part of this. Putting on fat because of hay wouldn't make much sense to me from and energy standpoint, the grain is way higher in total energy. Everything I read says to keep grain to 1% body weight for lightweight calves.. so much out there I don't know what's right or wrong

 

[jdcopkid]

Those type of calves are good to buy in February/March. They sell at a big discount at that time of year. Take them home, give them a round of shots, worming and a implant. Turn them out on grass and by early fall they will way 300 lbs heavier, look a lot better and will sell at a big price to someone looking for wheat calves.

On the other hand, they won't do squat running them through the winter.

Luckily "winter" in Fort Worth can come as late as January and be over by March

 

[midTN_Brangusman]

Judging by the dung on the tail, calf could use a good oral drench wormer like Valbazen.

 

[jdcopkid]

Judging by the dung on the tail, calf could use a good oral drench wormer like Valbazen.

Yea this photo is about two weeks old. We had some diarrhea going through the calves. Everyone is over it now

 

[farmerjan]

The "hay belly" is from them eating more and more hay to try to satisfy the body's need for more protein and trace elements to grow. Cookie meal at that age is just like giving a kid too much candy and not enough "healthy food".. it does not satisfy the body's needs for development. It is fine for bigger older animals that the rumen does not need to extract all the nutrition it can for DEVELOPING bone and muscle.
The rumen has had to develop "too fast" from a sudden change from being on the cow and more nutrition coming from the milk... which is DESIGNED to supply all the needed nutrients as they start to learn to eat grass and hay.
@Warren Allison is right... too much "roughage/bulk" and not enough protein... cut the hay or at the very least, up the grain/feed. I like to add oats to their diet for the feed value and some roughage. DDG here is something that many dairies use, it is not available except in bulk bags and so we seldom use it unless mixing our own feed.
How much grain are they getting? They should be up to about 2-3% of their body weight for them to get the proper amount of NUTRITION to supply the body's demands to GROW bone and muscle...
Skimping on protein and the other necessary nutrients will result in them eating more hay/grass... the body is telling them it needs more so they increase their intake to try to meet that need.
If these calves are 300 lbs they need to be eating 6-8 lbs GRAIN...( 2% of body weight.... 300 lbs =6 lbs) with adequate protein every day......6 lbs x10 calves is 60 lbs grain a day..... for 10 that is about 3-4 , 5 gallon buckets a day (5 gal bucket will weigh in the neighborhood of 20-25 lbs full...
I feed 16% protein to calves until about 400 lbs and then back it off to 12 or 14%...

They will eventually grow out of it to some extent... but usually it will result in some "stunted growth" and it is hard to make up for a nutrient deficient diet when they are young.
Ralgro will not fix the problem... it might help them to gain some, but it will not help the hay belly. We do not use implants on any cattle... there is a market for "natural cattle" here... and we get a good weight gain on good feed and then have the option of selling as "non-implant " natural cattle if we want...so, I personally do not want added implants in the animals.

 

[farmerjan]

Regardless of the fact that they are beef calves and had been on the cow... they got abruptly deprived of their MAIN source of nutrition... so they need to be fed more like dairy calves at this point to make up for the lack of continued milk from the cow... If they ahd been a dairy calf, or an orphan beef calf... they would have had grain supplementing the milk from very early on and the rumen would have been developing all along to utilize both as the milk was decreased or stopped, they would have been given increased amounts of grain to keep the nutritional demands of a growing animal up... not just fill them up. 1% of body weight is fine as a SUPPLEMENT to milk intake... it is not enough to GROW when milk is stopped... and 12 and 14 % proteins are not enough.

 

[jdcopkid]

The "hay belly" is from them eating more and more hay to try to satisfy the body's need for more protein and trace elements to grow. Cookie meal at that age is just like giving a kid too much candy and not enough "healthy food".. it does not satisfy the body's needs for development. It is fine for bigger older animals that the rumen does not need to extract all the nutrition it can for DEVELOPING bone and muscle.
The rumen has had to develop "too fast" from a sudden change from being on the cow and more nutrition coming from the milk... which is DESIGNED to supply all the needed nutrients as they start to learn to eat grass and hay.
@Warren Allison is right... too much "roughage/bulk" and not enough protein... cut the hay or at the very least, up the grain/feed. I like to add oats to their diet for the feed value and some roughage. DDG here is something that many dairies use, it is not available except in bulk bags and so we seldom use it unless mixing our own feed.
How much grain are they getting? They should be up to about 2-3% of their body weight for them to get the proper amount of NUTRITION to supply the body's demands to GROW bone and muscle...
Skimping on protein and the other necessary nutrients will result in them eating more hay/grass... the body is telling them it needs more so they increase their intake to try to meet that need.
If these calves are 300 lbs they need to be eating 6-8 lbs GRAIN...( 2% of body weight.... 300 lbs =6 lbs) with adequate protein every day......6 lbs x10 calves is 60 lbs grain a day..... for 10 that is about 3-4 , 5 gallon buckets a day (5 gal bucket will weigh in the neighborhood of 20-25 lbs full...
I feed 16% protein to calves until about 400 lbs and then back it off to 12 or 14%...

They will eventually grow out of it to some extent... but usually it will result in some "stunted growth" and it is hard to make up for a nutrient deficient diet when they are young.
Ralgro will not fix the problem... it might help them to gain some, but it will not help the hay belly. We do not use implants on any cattle... there is a market for "natural cattle" here... and we get a good weight gain on good feed and then have the option of selling as "non-implant " natural cattle if we want...so, I personally do not want added implants in the animals.

Thank you for all that! I had planned to eventually get them off the cookie mix and mainly on DDG. I've been trying to transition them slowly so I didn't shock their GI system. I know with the DDG I need to make sure they aren't getting too much sulfur and are getting enough calcium so I have limestone that is being adding to the DDG. I bought the cookie mix before I got the calves as it was recommended to me before I started really doing some research. It sounds like I definitely need to up their grain. I've been hanging around the 1% of their body weight but they don't clean it up all at once. They eat the majority of it at once but then come back to clean it up throughout the day. We just opened up a pasture for them also, hoping that would help with some nutrients. I'm fine feeding more grain, just trying to figure out what I SHOULD be feeding them with so much conflicting information I've been reading

 

[farmerjan]

My opinion... like a$$holes, we all have one... I would feed a good BALANCED 16% feed from the local feed mill.... they are supposed to know how to make a complete feed that will supply the necessary nutrients... rather than try to cobble together ingredients like you are doing. Most have a formula and a good feed mill will make a ration that will address and BALANCE the feed for the needs of a growing calf...

 

[kenny thomas]

In your first post you said you thought they were split off that weren't weaned well. Whether they are that or bottle calves they had not been taken care of very well at all. They look to me like calves that had been picked up cheap off the markets and advertised on Craiglist or Facebook as good calves. A very good injectable wormer and really good feed will help but its a long time away to being good calves. Dont feed the worms inside them. Get them clean and healthy and they will grow.

 

[jdcopkid]

In your first post you said you thought they were split off that weren't weaned well. Whether they are that or bottle calves they had not been taken care of very well at all. They look to me like calves that had been picked up cheap off the markets and advertised on Craiglist or Facebook as good calves. A very good injectable wormer and really good feed will help but its a long time away to being good calves. Dont feed the worms inside them. Get them clean and healthy and they will grow.

Yes I do believe they were split at the barn and not weaned correctly. They have been wormed. I plan to get them to 600 ish lbs. so I'm hoping that's enough time to get them straightened out a bit

 

[farmerjan]

If they were split off cows, then they weren't really "weaned"... well or otherwise. They were abruptly "weaned"... as in deprived of their momma's at a way too young age....
I also see what @kenny thomas is saying... and agree with the way they look...
You are to be commended on keeping them all alive.... that in its self was an accomplishment.

 

[kenny thomas]

Yes I do believe they were split at the barn and not weaned correctly. They have been wormed. I plan to get them to 600 ish lbs. so I'm hoping that's enough time to get them straightened out a bit

This is terrible of me but is my pet peeve. Notice in any post i mention worming i say a good injectable wormer. Usually mention Cydectin because i have had good results with it.
I will never forget a post by Lucky_P who is a vet. He stated his results showed the good of a pour on wormer is what one would animal can lick off of another. Some wormers are for specific worms or larva in a certain stage.
Anytime you buy calves the seller is likely to say they are wormed and had their shots. Ask what was used and many times they stumble. Many vaccines require a booster and most never get the booster.
You asking questions and getting some good answers. Keep up the good work.

 

[ClinchValley86]

This is terrible of me but is my pet peeve. Notice in any post i mention worming i say a good injectable wormer. Usually mention Cydectin because i have had good results with it.
I will never forget a post by Lucky_P who is a vet. He stated his results showed the good of a pour on wormer is what one would animal can lick off of another. Some wormers are for specific worms or larva in a certain stage.
Anytime you buy calves the seller is likely to say they are wormed and had their shots. Ask what was used and many times they stumble. Many vaccines require a booster and most never get the booster.
You asking questions and getting some good answers. Keep up the good work.

I too say to hell with a pour on.

How about those safeguard blocks? I see people around here using them. What does @Lucky_P think of those?