Pot belly calves..

[Travlr]

I have 10 calves that I'm pretty certain were just split pairs from the sale barn so weren't weaned great. They are eating well, started them on coastal hay (sent to A&M for analysis) and 14% pellet. They are now on hay, some grazing, and 14% cookie mix mixed with 14% pellet and 25% dried distiller grains. I just started adding the distiller grains last week.

When I compare them to calves with their moms at the sale barn, I have notice the majority of them have a pot belly and not putting on much muscle. It has been described to be as a "leppy belly" or "orphan belly".. my hope is the DDG with the high percentage of rumen undegradable protein will help with the muscle and lean tissue growth.

Is this an issue that will self resolve with time? Am I on the right track with my feed thinking? What other suggestions are out there?
Planning to hit with RALGRO in the next week or so

Attached is one heifer example

What did they weigh when you bought them and how long have you had them?

Cattle ferment whatever they ingest in their four stomach chambers. This is a big part of their digestion. They are actually using feed to cultivate a bacterial culture, and they get the bulk of their protein needs from the bacteria they digest when they are on grass. Calves weaned too early develop big guts because they don't have their rumen and gut biome developed. They eat a lot and it passes through without being digested properly. Basically starving until the gut can catch up. Young calves on a cow have milk, which doesn't need to ferment to be digestible. They get their gut biome from the saliva of their mothers as they are being groomed. If you want their bellies to diminish and for them to start gaining weight you need to get their rumen working properly.

And worming them all together at one time means the worms all get hammered at the same time and you don't have one calf that was wormed three months ago reinfecting the rest.

 

[jdcopkid]

This is terrible of me but is my pet peeve. Notice in any post i mention worming i say a good injectable wormer. Usually mention Cydectin because i have had good results with it.
I will never forget a post by Lucky_P who is a vet. He stated his results showed the good of a pour on wormer is what one would animal can lick off of another. Some wormers are for specific worms or larva in a certain stage.
Anytime you buy calves the seller is likely to say they are wormed and had their shots. Ask what was used and many times they stumble. Many vaccines require a booster and most never get the booster.
You asking questions and getting some good answers. Keep up the good work.

I appreciate the sound advice. I know they were drenched with safeguard. I personally bought ivomec to have on hand as well. The older calves were given virashield 6 and pasteruella. The younger ones nasalgen 3-pmh..

I have ultrabac 8, pyramid 5, lepto and pasteruella on hand but was waiting for the ones that got shipping fever/scours to recover all the way. Had two little ones end up with pneumonia I think but recovering well

 

[puzzled in oregon]

Good or bad, when I buy something they get vaccinated and wormed no matter what the seller/auction barn say has been done.

 

[jdcopkid]

What did they weigh when you bought them and how long have you had them?

Cattle ferment whatever they ingest in their four stomach chambers. This is a big part of their digestion. They are actually using feed to cultivate a bacterial culture, and they get the bulk of their protein needs from the bacteria they digest when they are on grass. Calves weaned too early develop big guts because they don't have their rumen and gut biome developed. They eat a lot and it passes through without being digested properly. Basically starving until the gut can catch up. Young calves on a cow have milk, which doesn't need to ferment to be digestible. They get their gut biome from the saliva of their mothers as they are being groomed. If you want their bellies to diminish and for them to start gaining weight you need to get their rumen working properly.

And worming them all together at one time means the worms all get hammered at the same time and you don't have one calf that was wormed three months ago reinfecting the rest.

They have all put on weight since I've had them. I bought them all in two batches within 10 days of each other. I'll attach videos of before I got them below.



Here are some random videos over the last couple weeks



The two little ones quarantined from the others in the video, they are the pneumonia babies, the brown one I have been doing everything I can to get him going. He lost a lot of weight but he's now eating pretty well so I think we're getting over the hump. Here is a video of him yesterday

 

[Travlr]

They have all put on weight since I've had them. I bought them all in two batches within 10 days of each other. I'll attach videos of before I got them below.



Here are some random videos over the last couple weeks



The two little ones quarantined from the others in the video, they are the pneumonia babies, the brown one I have been doing everything I can to get him going. He lost a lot of weight but he's now eating pretty well so I think we're getting over the hump. Here is a video of him yesterday

So again...

What did they weigh when you bought them and how long have you had them?

 

[jdcopkid]

So again...

What did they weigh when you bought them and how long have you had them?

Apologies. I don't know what they weighed, don't have a scale. I have had them since July 4. But they have definitely put on weight since I got them(except the one sick one). I was hoping the video showed the difference from when I got the them to now.

 

[JJColvin]

I've noticed it happens when calves are weaned to young. Hopefully it'll straighten itself out.

Happened to me. I lost a cow to anemic and the vet told me I left the calf on too long. Told me "nowadays we recommend weaning at 3 months". So I had 18 calves the next year and weaned the all at 3 months give or take a week and everyone of them potbellied.

 

[Travlr]

Happened to me. I lost a cow to anemic and the vet told me I left the calf on too long. Told me "nowadays we recommend weaning at 3 months". So I had 18 calves the next year and weaned the all at 3 months give or take a week and everyone of them potbellied.

There isn't a competent vet in the country that would advise weaning at three months unless there is something wrong with a cow..

 

[jdcopkid]

There isn't a competent vet in the country that would advise weaning at three months.

One of these days I'll have to share my vet stories with these.. they are the main reason I started trying to find forums for help, can't trust the ones I used for these little calves

 

[jdcopkid]

One of these days I'll have to share my vet stories with these.. they are the main reason I started trying to find forums for help, can't trust the ones I used for these little calves

However, a lot of university ag extensions have studies and articles out about early weaning beef calves as early as 40 days.. I know it's primarily money driven to keep the cows having a baby every 365 days though so take it with a grain of salt

 

[Travlr]

However, a lot of university ag extensions have studies and articles out about early weaning beef calves as early as 40 days.. I know it's primarily money driven to keep the cows having a baby every 365 days though so take it with a grain of salt

I've weaned at 205 days/seven months the entire time I've been in cattle... and averaged a 365 day calving interval. In all my college days and with later contact I've never seen an ag school that recommended anything but seven month weaning. It's an industry standard.

I've seen a lot of newbies talk about it as though it's a smart idea, but their logic doesn't pencil out.

 

[puzzled in oregon]

The competency level of vets seems to be declining. But their rates/fees continue to increase.
Was told the other day that the local vets are now charging $700.00 to neuter a dog.

 

[jdcopkid]

I've weaned at 205 days/seven months the entire time I've been in cattle... and averaged a 365 day calving interval. In all my college days and with later contact I've never seen an ag school that recommended anything but seven month weaning. It's an industry standard.

I've seen a lot of newbies talk about it as though it's a smart idea, but their logic doesn't pencil out.

Yea I don't have any experience with it. Never had a calf birthed on my place. Just some articles I've read

Early Weaning for the Beef Herd - Oklahoma State University

Early weaning management practices in a cow-calf operation.

extension.okstate.edu

Early Weaning Beef Calves Sometimes Makes Cents

Early Weaning Beef Calves Sometimes Makes Sense In areas where forage quality is low and quantity is not adequate in summer and early fall, early weaning could be a management practice, especially for young cows raising their first calf. Early weaning can enhance the efficiency of drylot...

beef.unl.edu

 

[Travlr]

Yea I don't have any experience with it. Never had a calf birthed on my place. Just some articles I've read

Early Weaning for the Beef Herd - Oklahoma State University

Early weaning management practices in a cow-calf operation.

extension.okstate.edu

Early Weaning Beef Calves Sometimes Makes Cents

Early Weaning Beef Calves Sometimes Makes Sense In areas where forage quality is low and quantity is not adequate in summer and early fall, early weaning could be a management practice, especially for young cows raising their first calf. Early weaning can enhance the efficiency of drylot...

beef.unl.edu

From your own links; "Weaning calves this early is used as a "last resort" management strategy"

Considered a possibility if cows are basically being starved by drought or poor management. Anybody with growing grass would be ill advised to do it.

 

[jdcopkid]

From your own links; "Weaning calves this early is used as a "last resort" management strategy"

Considered a possibility if cows are basically being starved by drought or poor management. Anybody with growing grass would be ill advised to do it.

Also says "In order to maintain a 365-day calving interval, calves should be early weaned at less than 80 days of age. About 40 days of age may be a practical minimum for early weaning in beef herds. Calves at least 40 days old do not require milk replacers in the ration and are old enough to eat dry feed."

So I don't know any better since I've never birthed calves, but you said you still maintain the calving window so I guess either I'm confused or they are wrong lol

 

[Travlr]

Also says "In order to maintain a 365-day calving interval, calves should be early weaned at less than 80 days of age. About 40 days of age may be a practical minimum for early weaning in beef herds. Calves at least 40 days old do not require milk replacers in the ration and are old enough to eat dry feed."

So I don't know any better since I've never birthed calves, but you said you still maintain the calving window so I guess either I'm confused or they are wrong lol

What is the very best feed you can give a growing calf to maintain its health and for the best growth possible... and at the lowest cost? And be able to breed the cow back reliably?

Milk from a cow.

They are talking about stressed cows and how to maintain a 365 day calving interval. Not like it should be done as though it would be a good idea on cows that have plenty to eat. Weaning early, as described, "is used as a "last resort" management strategy." That's pretty clear to me.

 

[Hereford2]

We wean at 7 to 8 months for our beef herd and our cow's calve every 10 to 12 months, so definitely inside of the 365 calving window they're talking about. Also with young calves like that 16%/18% Protein feed from your local feed store, you should be able to get it by the ton cheaper. Feed that at 2%/3% of body weight and they will straighten out. Work them up to that, don't switch overnight.

 

[Lucky]

We wean at 9-10 months and and most cows calve at about 365 days. We do pour the feed to the cows after eaning to get them back in shape though. Every early weaning article I've read is for stressed cows....usually drought stress. Never seen where it's a recommended general practice.

We had a good young cow get bogged down in a pool and die last week. Her calf looks to be about 3 months old. He's doing ok but I think he'll be a little pot bellied sucker at weaning.

 

[jdcopkid]

We wean at 9-10 months and and most cows calve at about 365 days. We do pour the feed to the cows after eaning to get them back in shape though. Every early weaning article I've read is for stressed cows....usually drought stress. Never seen where it's a recommended general practice.

We had a good young cow get bogged down in a pool and die last week. Her calf looks to be about 3 months old. He's doing ok but I think he'll be a little pot bellied sucker at weaning.

Yea I'm trying to raise beef, not pot bellied pigs I'm going to whip them into shape somehow….

 

[farmerjan]

However, a lot of university ag extensions have studies and articles out about early weaning beef calves as early as 40 days.. I know it's primarily money driven to keep the cows having a baby every 365 days though so take it with a grain of salt

No offense, but that is the biggest bunch of BS I have ever read.... early weaning at 40 days... I don't know what university ever published that,,, honestly, please post a link.
A cow will have a calf every 365 days IF..... she has an uneventful pregnancy and normal delivery with no problems. She is in decent condition... not roly poly fat.... she will feed her calf, and should start showing a heat cycle in anywhere from 30 to 45-60 days... If she breeds at about 3 months into her lactation, she will carry for 9 months and deliver another healthy calf 12 months from the time she had the current calf.
There is absolutely NO reason for weaning a calf at 40 days to get her to come into heat and get bred to deliver another calf at 365 day intervals... I have never heard of anything so LUDICROUS...
WHY would any university espouse to take away the most natural calf raising machine in the form of the cow to just breed her...
Unless the cow is sick, or for some reason totally unable to make milk to feed that calf... there is NO REASON on GOD'S GREEN EARTH, to take a calf away ... the cow will naturally get bred back if her health is good and condition is good and the bull is fertile... 99.99999% of the time. WHILE DOING HER JOB AND FEEDING HER CALF.....