Open heifers. Lazy bull.....or?

[GoWyo]

No, not always. Ken is a vet, I'm sure he's seen plenty of issues that weren't obvious without a good exam.

The bull I had that didn't get anything bred tested fine, jumped and stuck cows fine, did the whole deed, but didn't seem to have much juice. Turned out June 1 with non-synced cows, some cows were coming back into heat by June 24 or so, then came back in heat July 14-15 and I knew I had a bad problem. Pulled a bull from the main pasture where they were mostly bred up and put him out July 20. I'm still waiting on 5 head to calve so we can be done.

 

[BFE]

I'll agree with the thoughts that most bull breeders baby them too much. Grass/hay depending on the time of year, maybe 5-8 pounds of feed per day and/or a little protein supplement is sufficient to develop them on.

I got a flyer a few years back from an Angus breeder. It had a detailed instruction manual for how to treat their bulls, which included pulling them after so many weeks and giving them rest and feeding them back up. I had to laugh. A male animal of any species has one job in their whole life, and that's to pass it on so to speak. If you need pampered to do that consistently then there's a problem.

 

[Brute 23]

I'll agree with the thoughts that most bull breeders baby them too much. Grass/hay depending on the time of year, maybe 5-8 pounds of feed per day and/or a little protein supplement is sufficient to develop them on.

I got a flyer a few years back from an Angus breeder. It had a detailed instruction manual for how to treat their bulls, which included pulling them after so many weeks and giving them rest and feeding them back up. I had to laugh. A male animal of any species has one job in their whole life, and that's to pass it on so to speak. If you need pampered to do that consistently then there's a problem.

How are they supposed to get those high epd #s with out a feed sack tied around their kneck?

 

[mwj]

Everybody at the bull sale complains about overfed bulls. When the sale starts they all seem to bid on the ''fat ones''.

If there is a big market for those slim bulls someone would step forward to sell them and pocket the feed bill.

 

[BFE]

Everybody at the bull sale complains about overfed bulls. When the sale starts they all seem to bid on the ''fat ones''.

If there is a big market for those slim bulls someone would step forward to sell them and pocket the feed bill.

Who said anything about slim bulls? There's plenty that will do it on less than a feedlot ration.

 

[mwj]

Who said anything about slim bulls? There's plenty that will do it on less than a feedlot ration.

''Feedlot ration'' indicates what?How would you describe a bull not raised on that ''feedlot ration''?

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I want a bull that is raised on a ration of grass/hay and nothing more. If my bulls see 5-8lb of grain in their lifetime that's pushing it.

For my operation any animal be it a cow/calf/heifer/bull that needs to be propped up with supplemental feeding can be somebody else's problem.

 

[BFE]

''Feedlot ration'' indicates what?How would you describe a bull not raised on that ''feedlot ration''?

Feedlot ration= free choice corn silage, 15 or more pounds of ground feed daily. A silage raised bull will wither away when you put them to grass. I've seen it happen.

I described it above. Grass or hay, a minimal amount of grain.

I realize in the corn belt that type of feed I described is more the normal, as there's more confined cattle in the good black dirt country. I can't have that kind of bull or cows. Fescue and clover is my feed program, enough shell corn to make them like me is about the extent of it.

 

[Stickney94]

Having watched many online production sales the past several years -- there are more and more bulls being sold that look very well fed in the sale videos. And they seem to sell at a premium over the bulls that look more naturally fed. I do think genetics is part of the story. But as others mentioned -- the bidding doesn't lie -- that hefty bull seems to bring a premium.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Having watched many online production sales the past several years -- there are more and more bulls being sold that look very well fed in the sale videos. And they seem to sell at a premium over the bulls that look more naturally fed. I do think genetics is part of the story. But as others mentioned -- the bidding doesn't lie -- that hefty bull seems to bring a premium.

As long as that hefty well fed bull can maintain condition when he comes home to do business that's fine. If he requires additional feeding to keep from shriveling up then IMO his genetics ain't worth squat.

 

[Stickney94]

As long as that hefty well fed bull can maintain condition when he comes home to do business that's fine. If he requires additional feeding to keep from shriveling up then IMO his genetics ain't worth squat.

Agreed. There are a lot of cattle in the upper midwest that roam pastures that are 20-100 acres. It's not like these bulls are dealing with BLM allotments in the intermountain west and needing to travel miles. Honestly, when I tune into a sale I'm more surprised when the seller doesn't have their bulls rather fat -- that's the market expectation for sure.

 

[mwj]

A good cow raising a calf will lose some condition and weight and we do not care. If a bull looses weight when breeding cows is that much different, if he covers the cows and stays healthy? It's not like we are buying them by the pound and loosing money because of shrink.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

I dont mind if a bull loses a bit of condition during breeding, but some completely fall apart.

Local guy bought a high dollar red angus bull out of the Dakotas from a highly regarded breeder. Absolutely perfect looking bull with great EPDs, and from a long line of corn fed genetics. Came here and got turned out with his cows, 30ish days into breeding he was a bcs of a 1/2 and there was no chance he was breeding anything. Between his inability to maintain on grass and the rigors of breeding he wasn't worth his weight as a cull let alone a 30k bull....

 

[M.Magis]

I dont mind if a bull loses a bit of condition during breeding, but some completely fall apart.

Local guy bought a high dollar red angus bull out of the Dakotas from a highly regarded breeder. Absolutely perfect looking bull with great EPDs, and from a long line of corn fed genetics. Came here and got turned out with his cows, 30ish days into breeding he was a bcs of a 1/2 and there was no chance he was breeding anything. Between his inability to maintain on grass and the rigors of breeding he wasn't worth his weight as a cull let alone a 30k bull....

Then that bull had far bigger problems than feed.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Then that bull had far bigger problems than feed.

Unlikely. Some animals thrive on grass others thrive on grain. They aren't all the same.

That bull was sold down south into corn feedlot country and as far as I know is still working and producing.

 

[M.Magis]

Unlikely. Some animals thrive on grass others thrive on grain. They aren't all the same.

That bull was sold down south into corn feedlot country and as far as I know is still working and producing.

Healthy animals don't go from fat to BCS of 1 or 2 in 30 days.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

They surely can if they can't get the nutrition they need from the forage provided while trying to breed cows in the summer heat.

I suppose he could have been sick and the multiple state vet inspections to get him here missed it. And the multiple vet inspections to get him down south missed it. Haha

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Gentlemen, Gentlemen. All I said is that 'new' purebred bulls which are fed 'up' in weight for bulls sales don't really have the condition the same as our working bulls. The new bulls can't keep up running a mile even after being weaned from grain etc. for a month.
I know every farm setup is completely different and so the requirements for the bulls are immensely different. Our bulls overwinter on a quarter section, away from home. Good hay, good bedding, salt, minerals and then grass, when it grows, until they have to run a mile home. There is no coddeling and yes they loose condition during the frigging cold winter, but they catch up again nicely on the fresh grass and look spiffy good when its time to go visit the ladies.
Of course, this is commercial and not a purebred operation, they have one job here, keep up with the cows and make some babies. That includes running 3 times a year, 1 - 3 miles.
Back when...... the oldtimers here took a mutt over purebred any day.
Did I open another can of worms with that statement? LOL