Open heifers. Lazy bull.....or?

[sunnyblueskies]

It's more an opinion question.
First of all, no we don't preg-check our herd in the fall, call us old fashioned.
Last year we purchased a yearling shorthorn bull specifically for heifers, low birthweight. He was semen tested, tested great.

Bulls are turned out for about 90 days. He had his own little herd of about 13 animals, 10 were heifers, 3 were cow/calf pairs we kept at home.
The first cycle in calving now is done and all we got so far were 3 heifers calved. None of the cows of that little herd have calved and from what I can tell (behavior, non existant milkbag, etc) we will end up with more open heifers then I would like.

Didn't notice any illnesses last summer in any of them, including bull. They were on good grass, had TM salt free choice........ So what could have been the problem?

Sure we get the odd open heifer because one matures later or whatever the case may be, but to have a first cycle go by with only 3 out of 13 total....... what gives?

 

[GoWyo]

It's more an opinion question.
First of all, no we don't preg-check our herd in the fall, call us old fashioned.
Last year we purchased a yearling shorthorn bull specifically for heifers, low birthweight. He was semen tested, tested great.

Bulls are turned out for about 90 days. He had his own little herd of about 13 animals, 10 were heifers, 3 were cow/calf pairs we kept at home.
The first cycle in calving now is done and all we got so far were 3 heifers calved. None of the cows of that little herd have calved and from what I can tell (behavior, non existant milkbag, etc) we will end up with more open heifers then I would like.

Didn't notice any illnesses last summer in any of them, including bull. They were on good grass, had TM salt free choice........ So what could have been the problem?

Sure we get the odd open heifer because one matures later or whatever the case may be, but to have a first cycle go by with only 3 out of 13 total....... what gives?

Sometimes they gotta clean the pipes and they don't get many bred first cycle bull is in. BSE says they should work, but sometimes they don't. Hope your second cycle picks up. Single bull pastures make me nervous, but we have to do it and I've been snakebit before by young bulls and old proven bulls.

 

[Brute 23]

Could be a bunch of things but I would put young, virgin bull toward the top. It's not an excuse for the bull but some aren't as agrssive as others.

It's a big adjustment for a lot of bulls to go from big bull pens with feed to running cows down in the pasture to breed.

What's the bulls background? Did he come from a breeder that shows SH cattle?

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Sometimes they gotta clean the pipes and they don't get many bred first cycle bull is in. BSE says they should work, but sometimes they don't. Hope your second cycle picks up. Single bull pastures make me nervous, but we have to do it and I've been snakebit before by young bulls and old proven bulls.

That's the first time we put just a single bull with the heifers, because he was tested and good. But yeah, I don't think we're going to do that anymore. 2 at least.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Could be a bunch of things but I would put young, virgin bull toward the top. It's not an excuse for the bull but some aren't as agrssive as others.

It's a big adjustment for a lot of bulls to go from big bull pens with feed to running cows down in the pasture to breed.

What's the bulls background? Did he come from a breeder that shows SH cattle?

Yes he is from a breeder, not our first bull from them. They used to show cattle, but don't think they've done so in the last few years. One thing that always bugs me is how fat breeders in general feed their yearlings, I get it...... prove weight gain, yadda yadda, but honestly when we get them they are in no condition to even run a mile with the other bulls without their tongue hanging on the ground. No matter who they are from or what breed.

 

[gcreekrch]

Do you vaccinate?

 

[Brute 23]

Yes he is from a breeder, not our first bull from them. They used to show cattle, but don't think they've done so in the last few years. One thing that always bugs me is how fat breeders in general feed their yearlings, I get it...... prove weight gain, yadda yadda, but honestly when we get them they are in no condition to even run a mile with the other bulls without their tongue hanging on the ground. No matter who they are from or what breed.

Ya we have to acclimate most bulls and wean them off the feed and stuff well before going out to breed.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

Yes we do.

Do you vaccinate?

Yes we do..

 

[TCRanch]

What was the time frame between the bull being tested and subsequently turned out? And what was the weather like when you turned him out? Just throwing this out there, but my neighbor ended up with all open cows one year because his bull got frostbite. It happens. On the flip side, we had an epic, early heat wave one year right after I turned out the bulls and a lot of my cows didn't settle on their first cycle. Don't know if it was the cows or the bulls but I wasn't the only one that had it happen.

 

[bird dog]

I would take in a cow to a vet and have her checked for Trich and maybe Lepto. I would also if possible start checking the cows at least once a day. to see if the bull is following somebody around. Maybe he has a libido problem.

 

[chevytaHOE5674]

Due to some bad circumstances i turned in a young virgin bull with a small group of synchronized cows last fall and only 1 of them got bred first cycle. I watched the idiot bull breed that one same cow 6 times in 1 hour while other cows in the group were riding each other. He was so focused on that one cow he missed all the others....

 

[wbvs58]

I would get the bull checked as being the primary suspect with emphasis on looking at his tackle. Things like broken penis, injuries with scar tissue and persistent frenulum can all hinder him from delivering the goods. sadly these aren't always well checked in a BSE especially when a big group is being done, often they are just happy to get a semen sample.

Ken

 

[Katpau]

Unfortunately a good BSE is no guarantee the bull will breed. About 12 years age I bought a young virgin bull who had tested very well on the BSE. I put him out with a small group of cows, but noticed every time we checked he was standing by the fence pawing and threatening a much larger and older bull located across the creek. They were separated by two fences and a wide valley with the creek running through the middle. A month in we found him in the valley between the fences with a broken leg. The fences were destroyed on both sides, so I assume he had made his way in with the older bull. We had to butcher him and put the cows in with the old bull. Next Spring we only had one calf in the first month. All the rest were sired by the old bull.

 

[Dave]

I had a young bull that tested good. One day I was out in that pasture. He was laying in the shade and cows were 100 yards away riding each other. I took the cows to another pasture with a bull and he went to the sale. Come calving time the next spring he hadn't bred anything.

 

[GoWyo]

I put a lot of miles on in June and first half of July checking lease pastures to make sure bulls are working and whether cows are coming back in to heat after they should have been bred. By mid-July it is just damage control with turnout June 1.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

What was the time frame between the bull being tested and subsequently turned out? And what was the weather like when you turned him out? Just throwing this out there, but my neighbor ended up with all open cows one year because his bull got frostbite. It happens. On the flip side, we had an epic, early heat wave one year right after I turned out the bulls and a lot of my cows didn't settle on their first cycle. Don't know if it was the cows or the bulls but I wasn't the only one that had it happen.

When we get new bulls they still go out to pasture with the other bulls first for at least a month before we bring them home to turn out with the cows. That way they can sort each other out and get climatized to our place. Honestly I don't remember how hot or cold it was. We don't turn out until end of June. Suppose we won't find out what the true problem was, but I'm not going to run a yearling alone again I suppose.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

I would get the bull checked as being the primary suspect with emphasis on looking at his tackle. Things like broken penis, injuries with scar tissue and persistent frenulum can all hinder him from delivering the goods. sadly these aren't always well checked in a BSE especially when a big group is being done, often they are just happy to get a semen sample.

Ken

His junk was fine. Broken Penis or other problems would be obvious to see.

 

[Brute 23]

When you say one cycle do you mean the calves that should have calves in the first 30 days, like one cycle, or the first 90 day cycle?

Just want to clarify that. If it's the first 30, wait and see what happens then next 60 days. That will tell you a lot, imo.

I'm not a fan of throwing more bulls at breeding issues, especially when you are not sure what the actual issue is.

 

[sunnyblueskies]

When you say one cycle do you mean the calves that should have calves in the first 30 days, like one cycle, or the first 90 day cycle?

Just want to clarify that. If it's the first 30, wait and see what happens then next 60 days. That will tell you a lot, imo.

I'm not a fan of throwing more bulls at breeding issues, especially when you are not sure what the actual issue is.

First cycle I mean first cycle within the 90 days. So the first 30 of 90.
Compared to our main herd, they were done over half in the first 30 days. But having said that, it's a complete different scenario. The main herd runs more bulls, but is on a large bush land grazing lease, which creates different problems.

 

[M.Magis]

His junk was fine. Broken Penis or other problems would be obvious to see.

No, not always. Ken is a vet, I'm sure he's seen plenty of issues that weren't obvious without a good exam.