None of our Business

[Caustic Burno]

Why as country do we have to stick our nose in everyone else's business?
Listening to the new's about the Syrian Civil War and the sabre rattleing.

I think the politicians should Listen to this old Hank Williams tune.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71rBeFZ-di4

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

I got to agree with you CB. I figure the more they kill thereselves off the less we will have to.

 

[Craig Miller]

I agree its not our business. This morning i heard that both rebs and dems are supporting a no fly zone and arming rebels. Obummer said that would be hard because they have a 'formidable' air force. Is he actually suggesting their air force is more formidable than ours?

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Why would we arm any of them?

 

[snake67]

I agree its not our business. This morning i heard that both rebs and dems are supporting a no fly zone and arming rebels. Obummer said that would be hard because they have a 'formidable' air force. Is he actually suggesting their air force is more formidable than ours?

I was working in this part of the world from 2008 - 2010. The Syrians have Mig 21, 23, 25 and 29's. While I would not guarantee how many are actually serviceable and how many pilots are available - on paper they do indeed have a decent air force.

As well, I used to inspect SAM sites - and they did have the SA-6 in my area of responsibility.

Be that as it may, none of the above are unbeatable.

Unfortunately, if the aircraft and the anti air missiles are serviceable and operational today there is a potential of American or coalition casualties.

It all depends upon the willingness of outside agencies and nation to get involved.

It is easy to thump on the drum - much more different to actually put people at risk.

Is the US of A population ready to do this?

Best to all

Bez

 

[snake67]

Why would we arm any of them?

There are domestic financial reasons for this - jobs likely being the big one.

Be that as it may, I would personally not agree with doing this - not that my opinion will make a hill of beans difference.

Eventually any arms given to the rebels by the western world will be used against the western world.

Best to all

Bez

 

[James T]

I would agree that's it's none of our business with the exception of any sarin gas. I wouldn't want that in the hands of any rebels or third world leadership. And if its existence there can be be proved, destroy it and get out, letting them beat each other to a pulp.

 

[Limomike]

I definitely agree CB. Most Afghanistan and Iraqi veterans will tell you, that they just need to let them kill each other off over there. Stay out of it.
I think we give too much credence to the people in power. We think they operate on the basis of wanting what is best for the world. This is extremely naive. They will invent and create an enemy or exagerrate the threat just so they can make war. The West as a whole except Switzerland needs wars, invasions, threats etc. This serves many purposes:
1) Distraction for the ruled
2) More Power for the rulers
3) Re-configuration of the global order
4) Development, testing and use of war technologies and money for bankers and defense contractors.

That being said, I hope I dont get this thread locked, but its just the truth.

 

[3waycross]

I definitely agree CB. Most Afghanistan and Iraqi veterans will tell you, that they just need to let them kill each other off over there. Stay out of it.
I think we give too much credence to the people in power. We think they operate on the basis of wanting what is best for the world. This is extremely naive. They will invent and create an enemy or exagerrate the threat just so they can make war. The West as a whole except Switzerland needs wars, invasions, threats etc. This serves many purposes:
1) Distraction for the ruled
2) More Power for the rulers
3) Re-configuration of the global order
4) Development, testing and use of war technologies and money for bankers and defense contractors.

That being said, I hope I dont get this thread locked, but its just the truth.

Excellant post. If iwas making the rules i would build a fence around the whole middle east and in 20 years go in and mop up the survivors. But then if given the choice i would do the same thing in most of the major cities of the US also.

When scumbags want to kill each other i say let em. Then decide if the survivors are a threat to whoever is left on the outside of that ring of depravity! But then that is what is already happening in places like Chicago already, and the statistics generated in places like that are being used to disarm the rest of us...convenient isn't it?

I believe that it is crazy to believe that all people are good or want good, just as the poor will always be with us so will the scumbags!

 

[Ryder]

Didn't obummer draw some sort of line which has probably been crossed?
I'm certainly not an authority on this conflict, but obummer needs to put up or shut up.

 

[ALACOWMAN]

Didn't obummer draw some sort of line which has probably been crossed?I'm certainly not an authority on this conflict, but obummer needs to put up or shut up.

probably hard to do anything to his fellow moos'limbs

 

[3waycross]

Didn't obummer draw some sort of line which has probably been crossed?
I'm certainly not an authority on this conflict, but obummer needs to put up or shut up.

Yes he did but if he backs it up Americans will be killed trying to stabilize a region of scumbags and it will do little if any good. He shoulda just kept quiet. This is one of the few places i feel for him. He needs to do something right, this just isn't it!......and the first sob who calls me an obama lover is gonna get whipped :lol2: :lol2:

 

[greybeard]

Need to supply both sides with as much sarin and other arms as they need to annihilate each other.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Didn't obummer draw some sort of line which has probably been crossed?
I'm certainly not an authority on this conflict, but obummer needs to put up or shut up.

Yes he did but if he backs it up Americans will be killed trying to stabilize a region of scumbags and it will do little if any good. He shoulda just kept quiet. This is one of the few places i feel for him. He needs to do something right, this just isn't it!......and the first sob who calls me an obama lover is gonna get whipped :lol2: :lol2:

I wouldn't call you a lover yet maybe you are lusting a little. :hide:

 

[ChrisB]

Yes he did but if he backs it up Americans will be killed trying to stabilize a region of scumbags and it will do little if any good. He shoulda just kept quiet. This is one of the few places i feel for him. He needs to do something right, this just isn't it!......and the first sob who calls me an obama lover is gonna get whipped :lol2: :lol2:

3waycross - If you would just start every post with "I love Obama and this is what I think..." The rest of us would have an easier time understanding what your trying to say.

:lol:

 

[3waycross]

Yes he did but if he backs it up Americans will be killed trying to stabilize a region of scumbags and it will do little if any good. He shoulda just kept quiet. This is one of the few places i feel for him. He needs to do something right, this just isn't it!......and the first sob who calls me an obama lover is gonna get whipped :lol2: :lol2:

3waycross - If you would just start every post with "I love Obama and this is what I think..." The rest of us would have an easier time understanding what your trying to say.

:lol:

Very good Chris. There may be hope for you yet!
:shock: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2: :lol2:

 

[OldCrow]

I was working in this part of the world from 2008 - 2010. The Syrians have Mig 21, 23, 25 and 29's. While I would not guarantee how many are actually serviceable and how many pilots are available - on paper they do indeed have a decent air force.

Best to all

Bez

Bez,

But would you agree with saying that while the migs have flight characteristics somewhat comparable to our (USA) aircraft the weapon systems would be considered dated and inferior? I'm not sure of there training but I imagine ours would be better due to experience and funding. I'm not saying that tha SAMs/Aircraft couldn't take out a few aircraft but I don't think it would be, as was stated, formidable.

Also what model of F-18 do you fly? Was curious a while back but didn't ask because it was off topic.

OldCrow

 

[snake67]

I was working in this part of the world from 2008 - 2010. The Syrians have Mig 21, 23, 25 and 29's. While I would not guarantee how many are actually serviceable and how many pilots are available - on paper they do indeed have a decent air force.

Best to all

Bez

Bez,

But would you agree with saying that while the migs have flight characteristics somewhat comparable to our (USA) aircraft the weapon systems would be considered dated and inferior? I'm not sure of there training but I imagine ours would be better due to experience and funding. I'm not saying that tha SAMs/Aircraft couldn't take out a few aircraft but I don't think it would be, as was stated, formidable.

Also what model of F-18 do you fly? Was curious a while back but didn't ask because it was off topic.

OldCrow

You miss my point

Flight characteristics mean nothing in this case - and yes, most are distinctly different.

Trust me - all pilots respect the old AA-10 and 11 - in a big way - all it takes is one - and they are excellent A/A missiles.

SAM-6 systems launched in volley are tough to defeat - very tough.

Jammers - even old ones used as barrage jamming can under the right circumstances make comms impossible

Weapons - even old ones can be used successfully in many cases.

Training while valid - cannot always overcome sheer numbers.

As an example. One thousand archers launching arrows on volley fire can make a soldiers life difficult - not impossible - just difficult. Someone will take a hit - pretty much guaranteed. And no, body armour will not completely protect you.

As for the wording - all I can say is I would approach this air force carefully and hopefully using stealth tech and T-Hawks be able to eliminate the threat before flying over the ground.

Western militaries no longer have acceptable loss rates - we work on zero casualty counts when planning. The JAG sits on the right hand of the battle commander and makes the calls. Legal? Yes - then go. Not legal? Then change the plan.

Model? Ours are not like your - I have flown the Legacy model; and the updated. We do not have models such as the C/D like you do - ours are very Canadianized - but do carry pods and precision weapons - in fact we carry pretty much the same systems and weaponry as the US military do.

Most important - how far is the American public prepared to allow the Prez to go? Remember Vietnam? It was not pretty. I think you folks are getting tired.

The Syrians have numbers and it is a very large and beautiful country. So let's throw "formidable" in the trash can.

Never forget that wars have been won and lost with small numbers going against big numbers - often it is the desire to inflict punishment and the morale of the troops that make the difference. How they Syrians would react - if this ever came to push and shove - well we would have to wait and see. No one can truly suggest the answer and be guaranteed correct.

Been in enough pizzing contests that I know for a fact that sometimes it is a big surprise when things start happening as to who is the tough guy and who is the push over. Always plan for the tough guy.

Who else will join in? Iran? Count on it. A nuke power.

In closing - ever since GW1 and 911 we have always taken on lower quality militaries and owned the skies. If Syria can and is willing to put up a defence - there WILL be caualties - people have been spoiled over the past decade fighting countries that do not have tech available to them to return fire effectively.

That is as far as I can go on a forum like this.

Have a great day

Bez

 

[greybeard]

No problem.
Israel has evidently decided to pick up the gauntlet. They've hit Damascus airport with missiles.

American officials say the alleged Israeli strike on Syria targeted Iranian missiles that Israel thought were headed for Hezbollah, the New York Times reported on Saturday.

A batch of surface-to-surface Fateh-110 missiles were being stored at a Damascus airport when they were struck in the attack, a U.S. official told the newspaper.

The Fateh-110 is a medium-range missile capable of hitting targets at a range of up to 300 kilometers.

According to a Syrian opposition website, a senior source in the Syrian Ministry of Transport claims that the target of the alleged Israeli attack was an airport, where aircraft fuel tanks, Syrian army ammunition storerooms, the army's runway and a civilian cargo plane that had arrived from Iran to Damascus were destroyed.

Syria's spokespeople are starting to sound a lot like Baghdad Bob.

"There were many reports on this issue over the past two days," he said. "A comprehensive investigation has begun and in the meantime there are no results, once there are results we will report these in full transparency, but whoever thinks they will turn us into a shadow of our former selves and damage Syria 'knock out style' we will tell them that they are imagining things that won't happen."

 

[Bigfoot]

The Israelites have conquered enemies with mere trumpets. My guess is that time has not changed the fact that they make a formidable enemy. Russia, Iran, and china need to be careful siding against the chosen ones.