New land purchase

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cbe462

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May 8, 2006
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I am extremely new to cattle raising, so new in fact I haven't started yet. My wife and I are leaving the city and are currently looking for houses with acreage well outside the big city (East Texas). We aren't looking to start a large cattle operation but looking to raise meat for our consumption and a few others (5-10 head) to help cancel out costs. I do realize this is a very open ended question, but this board is fascinating with some really good advice..."what are the must haves when searching for property" to raise cattle. We are looking at no less than 20 acres and hopefully upwards towards
50-100 depending on what we find where. Just looking for a few ideas, we have already read "storey's guide to beef cattle" which has been very helpful. Thanks in advance from this greenhorn!
 
1) Find a mentor in the area you are interested in.
2) Read as many posts on this forum on the subjects you want to research,then post clear questions to clarify any points you wish to clarify.
 
Get your place first, decide how many head it will carry and you want to fool with (consult your county extension agent, or a neighbor in the cattle business),make sure you have water,and facilities to work the cattle in place before you buy your first one. Try to buy your cattle by private treaty if you can,(from an individual,might keep you from getting burned at the local salebarn). Look for cow - calf pairs, if possible bred cow - calf pairs, (or a 3-fer). Find a mentor close by that you can call on for advice, be a good neighbor and help him when you can, it will pay off in spades.And oh! by the way...Murray grey crosses make mighty good eat'in!! ;-) :cboy: :)
 
Buy calm quality cattle. Do not forget to prepair for mother nature. Such as droughts. Don't run to many cattle for your acres. If you are going to get just a few head of cows you might AI or lease bulls. Starting off and raising calves to eating age may cost more that buying meat. You may want to eat one and then sell the rest. Posibly keep a smaller portion than you have. Have a good plan befor you start. Ask more questions here. Don't let a wise guy run you off. You may want to reasearch past posts befor you ask. Good luck.
 
Well, here's my opinion from a 3rd generation Native Texan who grew up in N. Central Texas...lol. Here's the list (not necessarily in order of importance, but close to it):

  • 1. Property in COUNTY area where there are NO "city" restrictions, zoning laws, etc. You probably want a small "ranch" not a "ranchette" on the outskirts of town.

    2. Preferably a good perimeter fence already in place (5 barbed wire, minimum 4' tall). One or more cross-fences would be a bonus for pasture rotation.

    3. Hopefully one or more shade trees for the cattle.

    4. Be great if there was a corral or other handling facility already built (however, this would be a rarity).

    5. Be real nice if there was already a barn for hay and other stuff.

    6. WATER...high priority! Good well...at least 15-20 GPM flow minimum (cattle will drink 15-25 Gal per day per 1000# animal unit).

    7. Good drainage on property, no places where there would be standing water.

    8. NO cacti, yucca, excessive sagebrush (aka Russian Thistle), or obvious poisonous weeds (e.g., locoweed, etc.). No broomweed (this indicates excessive overgrazing by previous owner).

    9. Decent grass...preferably native bermuda, etc.

    10. "House" (aka "home")...low priority for high quality expensive one with livestock operation...put your money in livestock infrastructure & animals and their care...have a "liveable" modest house.

    11. NO FIRE ANTS found!

    12. Preferably a property that already has an AG EXEMPTION; otherwise, you'll have to have your livestock operation for 5 out of seven years to qualify yourself.

    13. A year-around live creek would be nice; however, most important with a creek to have SIGNIFICANT "water gaps" in place so cattle don't go under the fence crossing the creek and escape.

    14. Good large animal Vet's place fairly close by and sources of hay and feed not too far away.

    15. Establish VERY GOOD relationships with your neighbors...check out their attitudes toward livestock if they're not farm and ranch people; otherwise, some neighbors can give you a very hard time because you have livestock and not "designer poodles".

    Am sure there are many more items consider; however, these were foremost on my mind!

    Good success in finding a place that suits you! :cboy:
 
Might I suggest that you work with a Realtor that has some experience in raising cattle, or has excellent knowledge of the cattle business! If you work with a residential agent that doesn't know most any of the basics of the area you're interested in, it will be like the blind leading the blind.
 
cbe

Welcome aboard! Lots of good advice here. Finding a local mentor should be a high priority as they will know the local conditions. Also, use the search button at the top of the page to research previous posts. After doing a search, if you have further questions don't hesitate to ask, but be as specific as possible.

Good luck & happy trails.

Brock
 
cbe,

When considering how much land to buy. If it were me i would figure on 4 good acre's of pasture per head of cattle. 2 acre per head to graze them on and 2 to cut hay to feed them through the winter. 20 good acre's would be enough to graze about 10 head. But if you are going to keep them and feed them through the winter you will need another 20 acres fo hay.

And by good pasture i mean pasture that is not half wood's and half grass. Pasture that produce's good wanted grass. Or has the potential by adding lime, fertlizer etc...., to get it producing grass.

And i would take into consideration what it will cost to keep up the amount of land that you are thinking about buying. If you dont keep it up.( brush hogged, sprayed, fertlized, limed, etc....., ) It will stop producing good grass and start growing weed's, brush, etc ...., and wont be very productive to run live stock on.

In my opinion you have to be as good of a grass farmer as you are a cattle farmer to raise cow's. But now i dont own but 10 head of cow's and a few horse's myself. So you can take my advice for what ever it is worth.
 
Stepper":1em1njuo said:
cbe,

If it were me i would figure on 4 good acre's of pasture per head of cattle. 2 acre per head to graze them on and 2 to cut hay to feed them through the winter. 20 good acre's would be enough to graze about 10 head. But if you are going to keep them and feed them through the winter you will need another 20 acres fo hay.

Stepper, are you sure you want to put it in such definitive terms? You live in Arkansas and he lives in Texas, are you that certain that your conditions are comparable to his? What if there is a drought? Would 2 acres/cow be enough hay to get him through the summer, fall, winter, possibly next spring - depending on when it hit? What about hail or some other natural calamity that would affect pasture and the need for hay?

And by good pasture i mean pasture that is not half wood's and half grass. Pasture that produce's good wanted grass. Or has the potential by adding lime, fertlizer etc...., to get it producing grass.

Considering he lives in Texas, woods might be a good thing as they would provide shade for his cows, thus getting them out of the mid-afternoon sun and reduce stress caused by the heat. Just because there are woods doesn't mean it's bad pasture, just that it needs to be managed a little differently. Finding land that produces good, wanted grass tends to be a little difficult (and will probably command a premium price) because there are a lot of people out there that just don't know how to manage pasture, thus it becomes overgrazed and tends to produce a lot of weeds and not much grass. Not an ideal situation, but it has 'potential' and simply requires different management and a different game plan.


And i would take into consideration what it will cost to keep up the amount of land that you are thinking about buying. If you dont keep it up.( brush hogged, sprayed, fertlized, limed, etc....., ) It will stop producing good grass and start growing weed's, brush, etc ...., and wont be very productive to run live stock on.

We never, ever fertilized, limed, sprayed, or brush hogged our pastures when we were on the ranch. The types of grass indigenous to our area didn't need it. We do spray where we are now and spread manure, but nothing else. Once again, this is a regional thing that may or may not be required depending on the local conditions and requirements. I'm not saying it won't be, just that one cannot state it as fact unless one is knowledgeable about the conditions and requirements in that area.

In my opinion you have to be as good of a grass farmer as you are a cattle farmer to raise cow's. But now i dont own but 10 head of cow's and a few horse's myself. So you can take my advice for what ever it is worth.

You are absolutely right - to raise cattle one has to know more about the grass and how to keep it healthy and growing than one has to know about the cattle grazing that grass. I'm not picking on you, trying to be ugly, or trying to start a fight - please don't think that I am. It simply a matter of there are no absolutes in the cattle business, because conditions vary so widely from area to area. Just my thoughts.

PS Thanks Dun.
 
Thank you to everyone for posting replies...I am learning every minute. Some really great advice. To further clarify my situation, we are looking at moving towards NE Texas, towards
the piney woods...We love that part of Texas it's just beautiful. and still we be close eneough for us to visit family in Dallas area. We want three things (plus all your ideas you are giving me)...Tanks/Lakes or water which include being able to fish, Wooded area to hunt or even ride 4-wheelers, fencing and infrastructure...I work out of my house, and this will be our retirement home when that career is over as well, we are in our 40's age wise...Thanks again for all the help! Chris.
 
well since yall are in your 40s id buy as much land as you think youd want.because land is getting sky high.so better get what you want in land.then take it slow an easy building fences an barns an pens.an when you think your comfortable get say 5 cows an a bull an go from there.
 
Enough said about what to look for in land by running arrow, as far as the cost of land that is another can of worms for the cattleman. I don't know the price of land in your area but small tracts around here are VERY pricey and even the larger tracts of good pasture land are out of sight. The point I'm getting at is that cattle cannot produce enough revenue to offset the cost of land here. People who have farms here either inherited them or pay for their land by other means along with cattle. I paid for my farms with money I made elsewhere and would be looking up a dead goats a## if I had to pay for the land with cattle. Hopefully land is more reasonable in your area and it will sustain a good ratio of cows per acre. I wouldn't weigh cattle revenue in on paying for land and with that aside there's been some good advice about the cattle end of it in the other posts. Best of luck!
 
Hire someone that really understands cattle to build or at least design your fences and working area. They have to actually see your place to be able to do it right.
I rented and worked at places that where not set up instinct and pressure friendly and it was a royal pain in the neck.

Have someone(that knows cattle and pasture) to come out(even if you have to hire them) to access the property BEFORE you buy it. God knows how many times I have gone to a greenhorns place with them bragging about how much grass they have-- and its all junk that they are starving the animals into eating.


I'll second making sure you get some local cows-from a long established opperation--- that will sell you aged; prooven docile and cooperative cows-to start with.
Don't go cheap or experimental to start with-- get your feet good and wet first.

Just in case check the flood maps-- I had a friend that bought a beautiful place well back from a river with a creek flowing thru. No one mentioned to them that in a huge rain event the whole place went under water except the barn and house.
Water fron the river would make the creek flow the other way regularly--- then at times eventually jump the banks and spread.
Up side is they had beautiful topsoil :)
After Fran they lost 50 head and they had 100 cows and calves on 2 acres(right next to the house) for almost a week and had to boat hay into them.No shade and the temps went up into the 90's.
It was a stinking, muddy, fly infested mess for months.
They sold it to some other sucker a few years latter.
 
Pretty good list from RAB. I'll object to this one, though:

Running Arrow Bill":1yrjthnl said:
13. A year-around live creek would be nice; however, most important with a creek to have SIGNIFICANT "water gaps" in place so cattle don't go under the fence crossing the creek and escape.

I can't think of a much bigger pain in the ass than having running water that goes through a place. It sounds real nice until you have to deal with all of the problems that come from mixing cows, calves and creeks. Don't ask for specifics---just let your imagination run wild and you'll see it if you live long enough.

There may be places where live water is beneficial to a cattle operation. In my opinion, East Texas isn't one of those of places.
 
jersey lilly":19mw6jmp said:
I had to laugh when I read the post that had "NO FIRE ANTS FOUND!!!" there aint no such peice of ground in East Texas.

What a crock tell them to lay on the ground and work on a tractor about ten minutes, I bet they find them invisible fireants.
 
Make sure you read up as much as you can (books, boards, publications). Make sure you find a good mentor that can help you. Even if they aren't five minutes away. It will help you out to be able to ask all your "stupid" questions to. Not implying your questions are stupid. Just when someone starts out they may ask amateur questions that they may get reamed for on here by some. The board is good for info, just make sure it's not your only source.
 
jersey lilly":2der5d49 said:
I had to laugh when I read the post that had "NO FIRE ANTS FOUND!!!" there aint no such peice of ground in East Texas.

ROFLOL!

Ok...Lilly...

My comments were "ideal" situations. There ARE places in Texas that are not under fire ant quarantine (hay production). Thus, if one can find a place without fire ant infestations, fantastic! Incidentally, we don't have fire ants in many West Texas areas. However, they are rampant from N. Central Texas through Hill Country, down to Houston area (and, I'm sure in East Texas).
;-)
 

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