New Heifers

[Warren Allison]

I'm trying different red hides to see which I like best.

I'm thinking my new bunch is beefmaster or brangus, but could be gerts. They are very docile, which was high on my list.

I don't really care as much what they are as long as they're good mommas and raise a good calf off of grass and other minimal input.

I took 3 registered Red Charolais Heifers to a man below Cairo the other day. He breeds red Brahmas and red Simbrah. He said he only used solid red Simmentals in his program. He sells red Simbrah bulls and red f1 Simbrah x Simm heifers. So many people really like a red cow, and they still get black calves to sell out of them. These 3 made 10 registered red Charolais cows he will have, and he is planning on trying to develope some red Charbrays. Simbrah and Charbray may have a little too much ear for you, but Brahma, Simmental and Charolais all make some growthy calves.
Doesn't matter if these you bought are UltraReds or Gert x red Angus, they are some nice looking heifers. What other kinds of red cattle do you have?

 

[wbvs58]

There is a test available. The genetic defect/mutation goes back to a specific simmental bull SV Red Charlie born in 1993. It became known through Remington Lock N Load and several of his sons. So suspects for this gene are animals that have these bulls in their pedigree. The ASA database will show if a specific animal is at risk based on pedigree. The traitTrac feature will show as "carrier in lineage" for those animals until they are tested. So, not a random risk, but specific to pedigree.

But, pedigrees are not always 100% correct. People make mistakes on breeding dates and records, AI sire or cleanup bull sired, etc. There is a new rule in the simmental breed. Any bull calf born in 2025 and after must have dna testing done for parentage verification in order to register any calves from the bull. ASA is a progressive science/data based association. That will help to ensure correct sires for ASA registered cattle. Wonder when other breeds will step up on that issue. Random testing of cattle has shown errors in pedigrees. Most probably accidental, a few probably intentional. 5 to 10% range if I remember correctly.

Parent verification has been a requirement for bulls used before progeny are registered with Australian Angus for over a decade now and I am pretty sure that has been a requirement with American Angus for a similar period.

Ken

 

[simme]

Parent verification has been a requirement for bulls used before progeny are registered with Australian Angus for over a decade now and I am pretty sure that has been a requirement with American Angus for a similar period.

Ken

I don't own any registered AAA angus, but tried to do a little research which left me uncertain. AAA rule 102 lists what is required for registration of calves - no mention there of parentage verification.

Rule 103b states "Uncertain or unknown parentage. Whenever the eligibility for registration of any animal is in doubt because of uncertain or unknown parentage, DNA-marker-typing or blood-typing by the Association shall be required." That seems to imply that verification is only required when in doubt, but maybe only applies to older animals.

Rule 700 says "Each animal for which a Registration or Transfer application is or has been received by the Association and each animal owned by a member participating in any Association program may be subjected to a DNA-marker-type test to verify accuracy of parentage".

Maybe an AAA member here can comment on whether there is mandatory parentage verification in order to register calves. Also does AAA require genomic testing of all animals for registration, or is that optional?

 

[wbvs58]

I don't own any registered AAA angus, but tried to do a little research which left me uncertain. AAA rule 102 lists what is required for registration of calves - no mention there of parentage verification.

Rule 103b states "Uncertain or unknown parentage. Whenever the eligibility for registration of any animal is in doubt because of uncertain or unknown parentage, DNA-marker-typing or blood-typing by the Association shall be required." That seems to imply that verification is only required when in doubt, but maybe only applies to older animals.

Rule 700 says "Each animal for which a Registration or Transfer application is or has been received by the Association and each animal owned by a member participating in any Association program may be subjected to a DNA-marker-type test to verify accuracy of parentage".

Maybe an AAA member here can comment on whether there is mandatory parentage verification in order to register calves. Also does AAA require genomic testing of all animals for registration, or is that optional?

What do you mean by genomics testing? When parent verification is done it will include the Zoetus HD50K or the Neogen equivalent of genomics.
We have a very successfull Sire benchmarking programme where progeny of sires are evaluated through to calving or slaughter and these results have been used for about 15 years to validate the genomic markers. Sires from Australia and overseas are used each year in the program. I think our Angus society is at the top of the tree as far being progressive and scientific goes and yes we are developing a research EBV for methane production in conjunction with the benchmark program and we are proud of it as it is important for the markets we sell in.

Ken

 

[GoWyo]

I don't own any registered AAA angus, but tried to do a little research which left me uncertain. AAA rule 102 lists what is required for registration of calves - no mention there of parentage verification.

Rule 103b states "Uncertain or unknown parentage. Whenever the eligibility for registration of any animal is in doubt because of uncertain or unknown parentage, DNA-marker-typing or blood-typing by the Association shall be required." That seems to imply that verification is only required when in doubt, but maybe only applies to older animals.

Rule 700 says "Each animal for which a Registration or Transfer application is or has been received by the Association and each animal owned by a member participating in any Association program may be subjected to a DNA-marker-type test to verify accuracy of parentage".

Maybe an AAA member here can comment on whether there is mandatory parentage verification in order to register calves. Also does AAA require genomic testing of all animals for registration, or is that optional?

We do not have to parentage test every animal registered. I had two bull calves last year that were suspicious as far as looks for being sired by the cleanup bull, so I submitted DNA and one was A.I. sired and the other by the cleanup bull. I am going to parentage verify all the bull calves and replacement heifers this year. I don't know that I will bother with the rest of the genomic panel.

 

[Travlr]

We do not have to parentage test every animal registered. I had two bull calves last year that were suspicious as far as looks for being sired by the cleanup bull, so I submitted DNA and one was A.I. sired and the other by the cleanup bull. I am going to parentage verify all the bull calves and replacement heifers this year. I don't know that I will bother with the rest of the genomic panel.

This is why I like commercial cattle and have never gone registered. But I appreciate registered owners making the effort and knowing what they are producing.

 

[simme]

What do you mean by genomics testing? When parent verification is done it will include the Zoetus HD50K or the Neogen equivalent of genomics.
We have a very successfull Sire benchmarking programme where progeny of sires are evaluated through to calving or slaughter and these results have been used for about 15 years to validate the genomic markers. Sires from Australia and overseas are used each year in the program. I think our Angus society is at the top of the tree as far being progressive and scientific goes and yes we are developing a research EBV for methane production in conjunction with the benchmark program and we are proud of it as it is important for the markets we sell in.

Ken

By genomic testing, I mean the dna profile like is done with the Zoetis 50K. The simmental association uses the Neogen 100K test. $50 and it includes parentage. They also have special pricing if you test your entire calf crop or all your cows. Then the price is $25 for the 100K test.

I did not intend to disparge any other breed association and hope that every long-term purebred breeder is proud of their association and breed. Angus certainly is the most popular breed in the US as far as numbers. But there is no doubt a lot of unrest within the membership in regards to the association.

 

[clarkmorefarm]

I took 3 registered Red Charolais Heifers to a man below Cairo the other day. He breeds red Brahmas and red Simbrah. He said he only used solid red Simmentals in his program. He sells red Simbrah bulls and red f1 Simbrah x Simm heifers. So many people really like a red cow, and they still get black calves to sell out of them. These 3 made 10 registered red Charolais cows he will have, and he is planning on trying to develope some red Charbrays. Simbrah and Charbray may have a little too much ear for you, but Brahma, Simmental and Charolais all make some growthy calves.
Doesn't matter if these you bought are UltraReds or Gert x red Angus, they are some nice looking heifers. What other kinds of red cattle do you have?

All my cattle are commercial crossed with Red Angus.

I have some South Poll/Red Angus with are 5/8 Red Angus. That includes some herford, barzona, & senepol.

Others are mostly Angus. Just trying red hides as I come across them, but I've only got 11 head total right now including calves.

 

[wbvs58]

By genomic testing, I mean the dna profile like is done with the Zoetis 50K. The simmental association uses the Neogen 100K test. $50 and it includes parentage. They also have special pricing if you test your entire calf crop or all your cows. Then the price is $25 for the 100K test.

I did not intend to disparge any other breed association and hope that every long-term purebred breeder is proud of their association and breed. Angus certainly is the most popular breed in the US as far as numbers. But there is no doubt a lot of unrest within the membership in regards to the association.

 

[wbvs58]

By genomic testing, I mean the dna profile like is done with the Zoetis 50K. The simmental association uses the Neogen 100K test. $50 and it includes parentage. They also have special pricing if you test your entire calf crop or all your cows. Then the price is $25 for the 100K test.

I did not intend to disparge any other breed association and hope that every long-term purebred breeder is proud of their association and breed. Angus certainly is the most popular breed in the US as far as numbers. But there is no doubt a lot of unrest within the membership in regards to the association.

Simme, you confused me, you said that the Simmental association was bringing in that from 2025 the sire of any calf registered had to be parent verified and yet all animals registered had to have genomics done which includes parent verification, why do you need to do the other parent verification? Why I asked what you mean by genomics is I have read other Simmental breeders imply that the genomics they do covers all recessive genetic conditions as well, I know my neighbour who breeds registered black simmental is of that opinion.

Ken

 

[simme]

Simme, you confused me, you said that the Simmental association was bringing in that from 2025 the sire of any calf registered had to be parent verified and yet all animals registered had to have genomics done which includes parent verification, why do you need to do the other parent verification? Why I asked what you mean by genomics is I have read other Simmental breeders imply that the genomics they do covers all recessive genetic conditions as well, I know my neighbour who breeds registered black simmental is of that opinion.

Ken

The recent rule change is for natural service sires born in 2025 and after. In order to register calves sired by the bull. The requirement already existed for AI sires as well as donor dams. Natural service sires were recently added to that requirement. That requirement is for genomic enhanced epd's, parentage verification, and testing for genetic defects IF the animal has risk of defects. That happens if the animal has genetics from several breeds known to have the possibility of defects or has a known carrier in his pedigree with no negative test on the animals in between.

Here are the official words:
"Natural Service Sire, AI Sire, and Donor Dam DNA Requirements
All AI sires, natural service sires (born on or after January 1, 2025), and donor dams must have the GGP-100K genomic panel on file to be approved for use within ASA. The GGP-100K is ASA's minimum requirement for all sires and donor dams, and failing to meet this requirement will prevent the registration of their progeny. Because of the high impact that sires and donor dams have on the population (current or potential), it's important to have as much genomic information on them as possible.

In addition to the GGP-100K panel, all sires and donors must be tested for any genetic conditions for which they are at risk. ASA tracks for seven of these: NH, AM, CA, PHA, DD, OS, and TH. To view an animal's individual risk for these defects based on their pedigrees, and to determine if additional testing is needed, go to the animal's TraitTrac in Herdbook"

When a dna sample is submitted through ASA for either the 100k test or the uLD test for enhanced epd's, it automatically gets parentage verified. There is no additional parentage verification needed. Prior year born natural service sires did not require genomic enhanced epd's (which is what you get from ASA/Neogen dna testing). And did not require parentage verification.

When a sample is submitted, the owner has the option to add additional tests such as color, dilution and polled genetic status, genetic defects, and BCHF - all for additional cost. Testing for AM, NH, CA, DD, TH, PHA, and OS can be done for $29 total if done at the same time as the 100K is done. Otherwise, they are $29 each. So, the Neogen Geneseek 100K testing with the American Simmental Association does NOT test for the genetic defects unless the owner has added those to the dna order spreadsheet.

 

[wbvs58]

The recent rule change is for natural service sires born in 2025 and after. In order to register calves sired by the bull. The requirement already existed for AI sires as well as donor dams. Natural service sires were recently added to that requirement. That requirement is for genomic enhanced epd's, parentage verification, and testing for genetic defects IF the animal has risk of defects. That happens if the animal has genetics from several breeds known to have the possibility of defects or has a known carrier in his pedigree with no negative test on the animals in between.

Here are the official words:
"Natural Service Sire, AI Sire, and Donor Dam DNA Requirements
All AI sires, natural service sires (born on or after January 1, 2025), and donor dams must have the GGP-100K genomic panel on file to be approved for use within ASA. The GGP-100K is ASA's minimum requirement for all sires and donor dams, and failing to meet this requirement will prevent the registration of their progeny. Because of the high impact that sires and donor dams have on the population (current or potential), it's important to have as much genomic information on them as possible.

In addition to the GGP-100K panel, all sires and donors must be tested for any genetic conditions for which they are at risk. ASA tracks for seven of these: NH, AM, CA, PHA, DD, OS, and TH. To view an animal's individual risk for these defects based on their pedigrees, and to determine if additional testing is needed, go to the animal's TraitTrac in Herdbook"

When a dna sample is submitted through ASA for either the 100k test or the uLD test for enhanced epd's, it automatically gets parentage verified. There is no additional parentage verification needed. Prior year born natural service sires did not require genomic enhanced epd's (which is what you get from ASA/Neogen dna testing). And did not require parentage verification.

When a sample is submitted, the owner has the option to add additional tests such as color, dilution and polled genetic status, genetic defects, and BCHF - all for additional cost. Testing for AM, NH, CA, DD, TH, PHA, and OS can be done for $29 total if done at the same time as the 100K is done. Otherwise, they are $29 each. So, the Neogen Geneseek 100K testing with the American Simmental Association does NOT test for the genetic defects unless the owner has added those to the dna order spreadsheet.

Yes but why the need for parent verification of natural service sires when you have already stated that all registered Simmentals have to have genomics done which includes parent verification that is unless you are referring to sires outside of registered Simmentals?
As I said earlier I have had to have parent verification for any of the bulls I use for natural service before I can register the calves for some time now. Your testing for genetic conditions is not that dissimilar to ours except we have the advantage of being a closed herdbook so no genetics from outside breeds comes into the herdbook.

Ken

 

[redcowsrule33]

Genomics are not required on alll Simmentals but they have programs for testing the entire cow herd or calf crop at a reduced cost which Simme has apparently taken advantage of. The bull requirement is new. As for genetic defects there are certain ones that they will put holds on progeny registration until the sire is tested if they determine there is a pedigree or population risk.

 

[simme]

Yes but why the need for parent verification of natural service sires when you have already stated that all registered Simmentals have to have genomics done which includes parent verification that is unless you are referring to sires outside of registered Simmentals?
As I said earlier I have had to have parent verification for any of the bulls I use for natural service before I can register the calves for some time now. Your testing for genetic conditions is not that dissimilar to ours except we have the advantage of being a closed herdbook so no genetics from outside breeds comes into the herdbook.

Ken

Prior to the "new rule", no genomic testing or parentage testing required for natural service bulls. After the "new rule", 100k genomic testing (including parentage verification) required for natural service sires born 2025 and after in order for his calves to be eligible for registration. There is no rule and no issue/need of a second parentage verification required after parentage verification has already been done.

"All registered simmentals" do NOT require genomic testing. AI sires and donor dams have long required genomic testing. Now, natural service sires whose calves will be registered require genomics. There is no requirement to test the cow herd unless they are used as donor cows. No requirement previously or now to test natural service sires unless their calves are going to be registered.

 

[CowsRcuddly]

I don't own any registered AAA angus, but tried to do a little research which left me uncertain. AAA rule 102 lists what is required for registration of calves - no mention there of parentage verification.

Rule 103b states "Uncertain or unknown parentage. Whenever the eligibility for registration of any animal is in doubt because of uncertain or unknown parentage, DNA-marker-typing or blood-typing by the Association shall be required." That seems to imply that verification is only required when in doubt, but maybe only applies to older animals.

Rule 700 says "Each animal for which a Registration or Transfer application is or has been received by the Association and each animal owned by a member participating in any Association program may be subjected to a DNA-marker-type test to verify accuracy of parentage".

Maybe an AAA member here can comment on whether there is mandatory parentage verification in order to register calves. Also does AAA require genomic testing of all animals for registration, or is that optional?

There is NO requirement to parentage verify calves to be registered in the AAA, unless the resulting calves are from cows that had several sires in the same pasture or semen was pooled during IVF of a donor.

 

[CowsRcuddly]

By genomic testing, I mean the dna profile like is done with the Zoetis 50K. The simmental association uses the Neogen 100K test. $50 and it includes parentage. They also have special pricing if you test your entire calf crop or all your cows. Then the price is $25 for the 100K test.

I did not intend to disparge any other breed association and hope that every long-term purebred breeder is proud of their association and breed. Angus certainly is the most popular breed in the US as far as numbers. But there is no doubt a lot of unrest within the membership in regards to the assoc

By genomic testing, I mean the dna profile like is done with the Zoetis 50K. The simmental association uses the Neogen 100K test. $50 and it includes parentage. They also have special pricing if you test your entire calf crop or all your cows. Then the price is $25 for the 100K test.

I did not intend to disparge any other breed association and hope that every long-term purebred breeder is proud of their association and breed. Angus certainly is the most popular breed in the US as far as numbers. But there is no doubt a lot of unrest within the membership in regards to the association.

I wish AAA gave us a discount when DNA testing our cattle. Every animal 50K & parentage is $37 plus any genetic defect "bundle" testing to be done at an additional $18.

 

[wbvs58]

Prior to the "new rule", no genomic testing or parentage testing required for natural service bulls. After the "new rule", 100k genomic testing (including parentage verification) required for natural service sires born 2025 and after in order for his calves to be eligible for registration. There is no rule and no issue/need of a second parentage verification required after parentage verification has already been done.

"All registered simmentals" do NOT require genomic testing. AI sires and donor dams have long required genomic testing. Now, natural service sires whose calves will be registered require genomics. There is no requirement to test the cow herd unless they are used as donor cows. No requirement previously or now to test natural service sires unless their calves are going to be registered.

OK, sorry Simme. I misunderstood you back at the start of this discussion I thought you said that all reg Sims had to have a genomic profile but when I looked back I couldn't find that. It gets very confusing sometimes but I am glad we had this discussion it has clarified things for me.

Ken

 

[Nick Wagner]

One problem with those genetic tests, they can only test for known defects.

 

[wbvs58]

One problem with those genetic tests, they can only test for known defects.

That is right and you have to ask for specific tests or a panel of tests that might be specific to that breed, there is no blanket test that covers everything. When a new defect shows up it takes a while for a test for that defect to be developed.

Ken

 

[clarkmorefarm]

Couple of weeks in and the heifers are doing great.