New 870 express vs used 870 wingmaster

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DLD

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We're looking for a 20 gauge pump, mostly for a backup trap gun for my daughter. Thinking in the $300 range. I had about decided on a new Remington 870 Express, but came across a used 870 Wingmaster that looks (from the pics) to be in very good condition - he called it 90% plus, and it's in the money, so I'm guessing it's an older model. I have bought guns from him before, and it has always been good. I will look at it before I buy it, but mostly I want to know if anyone has experience with either or both, and how much difference is there between them - I know there's a big difference in price of both new. It maybe a stupid question, but I've always been a guy that would choose the new plain Chevy over the used Caddy for the same money, thinking the function is the same and I'd prefer the reliability of the new over the frills of the old. But obviously I don't know a lot about shotguns, so here I am.
 

J&D Cattle

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If the same money I would take the Wingmaster over the Express every time. Stuck on a pump or would an auto work? I love my 1100's.
 
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DLD

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She has an auto - an SKB 12 gauge. We just thought we'd try something different. Would like an over/under but just can't justify the cost of a good one, no more than we'll use it. I won the SKB in a drawing, otherwise she wouldn't have one that expensive - lol. Thanks J&D, I'm thinking that too.
 

Caustic Burno

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J&D Cattle":joc25kb2 said:
If the same money I would take the Wingmaster over the Express every time. Stuck on a pump or would an auto work? I love my 1100's.

For my money I would throw the
870 Express in the creek and find a Browning BPS.
 

Cross-7

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Ive had several of the afore mentioned shotguns
Few years ago I bought a benelli nova.
It fits me good. Good balance to it and feels good.
I like it better than the others I've had.
Chambers any brand of shell you stick in it without a problem.
They are priced competitively
 

Ol' 243

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Buy the Wingmaster, the new 870's are rough at best. The old Wingmasters are smooth, the new stuff feels like you need a jackhammer to cycle the action. Lot of difference in the fit and finish.
 

Atimm693

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Wingmaster. Given the choice, I will always prefer the cared for classic gun instead of it's modern low-cost counterpart.

From what I've read, the quality of new Express models is not so good. Not that they were anything to brag about to begin with, good guns (I have one), but they're straight utilitarian, designed only to perform and carry a low price.

There is also the matter of depreciation, unless you toss it in a fire, the Wingmaster will always hold its value, and may actually gain value, the Express will take a big hit as soon as you shoot it.
 

Brute 23

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As said above, Wingmaster all day long. They are smooth as silk. My brother and I both grew up trap shooting with our dad's Wingmaster. Just check the barrel. Some are Mod and some are Full. Either will be fine for trap. Only down side is if you go in to shoot offs and they start backing them up she could be at a disadvantage with the Mod. Even at that, I would thread a Wingmaster for chokes before I bought a new Express.

Buy an 1100 for her the first chance you get. They are great skeet and trap guns. They can be bought reasonably priced and you can shoot thousands of rounds thru them with out a hitch.
 

Caustic Burno

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dun":3nq059r4 said:
I vote with everyone else, the Wingmaster

I love shotguns the Remington 870 is the only shotgun I don't want or like.
Great guns the drop on the comb sucks.
I really don't care to shoot anything not designed by Browning.
 

dun

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Caustic Burno":3rsm9li1 said:
dun":3rsm9li1 said:
I vote with everyone else, the Wingmaster

I love shotguns the Remington 870 is the only shotgun I don't want or like.
Great guns the drop on the comb sucks.
I really don't care to shoot anything not designed by Browning.
The best fitting shotguns I've had are a Winchester 1400 and a Weatherby Athena V, browning never worked well for me but neither have remingtons and the worst are Berettas
 

Brute 23

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Every one is built different, every one moves different, every one looks down a gun different so every one feels different when they grab a different gun. Same thing with golf clubs. There is no such thing as a one size fits all. 98% of the fight is the mental thought of when you grab the gun or club you feel comfortable and confident in your equipment... 2% is that it actually fits right.

I grew up my whole life shooting 1100s and 1187s... literally thousands of rounds. Ive gotten to shoot quite a few really nice guns now. I had to purchase an OU for a lease I am on now and I can kill birds with it no problem... but its still not like throwing up that 1100. :)
 

Caustic Burno

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Brute 23":15s79aae said:
Every one is built different, every one moves different, every one looks down a gun different so every one feels different when they grab a different gun. Same thing with golf clubs. There is no such thing as a one size fits all. 98% of the fight is the mental thought of when you grab the gun or club you feel comfortable and confident in your equipment... 2% is that it actually fits right.

I grew up my whole life shooting 1100s and 1187s... literally thousands of rounds. Ive gotten to shoot quite a few really nice guns now. I had to purchase an OU for a lease I am on now and I can kill birds with it no problem... but its still not like throwing up that 1100. :)

Give me the Winchesters shot competition trap for years.
Prefer Model 97,12 over the 101
 
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DLD

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I agree with Brute 23 - it's all about how it feels to the shooter. I won the SKB RS300 in a raffle before she started shooting, so it's what she learned with. It's built for clays, with a fully adjustable stock. We tweaked it a little for her, and away she went. This spring, exactly a week before the state shoot, the pin holding the trigger assembly in place broke. Her trap coach/sponsor (also her ag teacher and our good friend) called SKB for a new pin - they said that should never happen and asked us to send them the gun. We overnighted it to them on a Wednesday and on the following Monday they overnighted us a brand new gun - a couple of years newer model of the same gun. They picked it up on the way to the state shoot. Before all this she was consistently hitting around 20. For those 6 days she had practiced with everything we could get our hands and couldn't get anything to suit her (mostly the lower end pumps and o/u's that most of her teammates shoot) and was so happy to get her gun back - except it wasn't hers. All those adjustments we'd made were gone. For whatever reason, she hit about half her usual score, so we're just looking for something else she can get used to, just in case.

All that said, a couple of the better shooters among her teammates are shooting 870 Express models, and she seemed to get along as well with those as anything else, so that was part of why we were considering one. One has a Browning BPS, but my daughter never got a chance to shoot it. There are a couple of fairly nice o/u's in the group, but she's not sure about them. She hasn't been shooting skeet, but the state FFA skeet shoot requires o/u's, but they provide the guns for their shoot. That's why several of the other kids have gone to o/u for trap as well.


I hadn't done any research on the wingmaster before I posted this. What you all say reinforces what I have learned today. We'll look at the wingmaster tomorrow - I'm sure he'll have some other stuff to look at, too. Thanks everyone for your replies - I'll let you know what I come up with.
 

Ol' 243

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Now that we've voted on which one to get, and we've moved the thread over to what we like. I vote for the Benelli SBE. Best shotgun I've owned since an 1100. I don't care for the SBE II though. They screwed the pooch on trying to upgrade it.
 

Brute 23

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I would suggest giving her time to adjust to the new gun. She is fighting a mental game right now that if she can learn to over come will make her a better shooter. If it's not a gun, it's weather, or some thing else.

Those seem to be nice guns. I might try to find one to check out in person.

I am shooting a Labner OU right now. Paid $350 with chokes and a case. My buddy had it and couldn't hit squat with it. I always likes it. When he finally got mad enough I made him an offer. Its a great bang for the buck gun imo.
 

Caustic Burno

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Shotguning is 90% instinctive shooting.
Lots of decent shotguns out there and a few great ones.
The 870 is tried and true design that is time tested.
It all gets down to ergonomics come shooting time and 10% the head game Brute is talking about. You got to believe.
 

Dave

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I prefer older guns over the new ones almost every time. That said I have a express that is my duck hunting gun. It has been used and abused. Mud, snow, ice, dropped in the water, and generally treated like a cheap gun that I don't care about. Yet it has never failed me. And I have run cases of ammo through it without a single hitch.
 

jedstivers

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Caustic Burno":2um0syyt said:
Shotguning is 90% instinctive shooting.
Lots of decent shotguns out there and a few great ones.
The 870 is tried and true design that is time tested.
It all gets down to ergonomics come shooting time and 10% the head game Brute is talking about. You got to believe.
I shot a 870 for years and years and thousands of rounds and thousands of ducks.
I can now hardly hit anything with one after I started shooting Belgium A5 Brownings.
That gun comes to my shoulder so easy it's unreal.
 

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