Need Help with feed ration

[johnny25]

I have raised holstein heifers for 15 years with my dad and 3 years on my own. I recently put in a livestock individual scale at the farm to keep track of the monthly weight gain on my animals. I have 65 holstein.
1st pen is 600 and bigger, 2nd is 500-600 3rd pen is 400 to 500. I weighed the animals today and noticed in the 3rd pen that some animals put on considerably more weight then others. Some 2.5 pound to others .9 So I separated the pigs from the smaller animals and put them in there own corral. (The eaters make up the 2nd pen). The 1st pen are all my big girls. They all are nice a big, not fat but when I did a weight check today I noticed that most only put on a pound a day. Not really sure what I am do wrong. I guess i never noticed or cared before but now I have a scale and I watch every pound.
The feed at the house is very good quality alfalfa, good oats and for the small animals I feed grain.

1st pen ( 600 and up 24 animals) 315alf 80lbs Oat a day
2nd Pen (500-600 15 animals) 210alf 40lbs oats 20 grain a day
3rd pen 400-500 23 animals) 260 alf 40lbs oats 50 grain
This is what I have been doing for 1 month. The second pen is the only pen that almost put on 2 much weight. The other 2 pens havent put on enough. I guess with the 3rd pen you could say the 2nd pen what hogging the food when the were together put I can explain why the 1st pen really hasnt done to much weight wise. Do I need to eliminate some oats,add alfalfa? And I dont have access to silage, pretty much just hay, and maybe almond hulls. Sorry if this a long winded its my first post.

 

[auctionboy]

How long have you had the ones with the higher growthrate? Did they start out thin? Just sounds like compensatory gain. The heat might cause a slower rate of gain on your fat heifers. Just keep going and make sure they get enough to eat. Are they cleaning up all the Alfalfa?

 

[johnny25]

Every heifer of the 65 I have, have been on this ranch for 1 month today. I weighed them the day I bought them and then again today, 1 month later. I would say that the animals came in healthly. Not overly fat and not skinny. They were all on a silage,hay,grain mix before they came to my ranch. The bigger animals, I would say those were a little on the fat side, but thats why I thru in more oats. One other thing that concerns me is that i bred 5 heifers out of the big corral and a month later assuming there pregnant, really didnt put on that much weight. As far as cleaining up it depend on what I feed. With the 400 pounders if i strictly feed them alfalfa and grain, they clean it up pretty good. If I throw in oats, when i go back for the second feeding there usually is a good amount of oats. As far as the other corrals, they seem to be cleaning up. Still some hay left over but very little.

 

[johnny25]

Would it be a bad idea to feed the smaller animals that are on grain, strictly alfalfa and grain and kick out the oats.

 

[auctionboy]

Oats supplement the protein, but your alfalfa should take care of that. What grain are you feeding and how much? Seperating them was smart but don't make whole sale feed changes, just watch and maybe worm the slow goers?

 

[johnny25]

First thanks for responding back so quickly. The grain that I am feeding them is just your standard 70lb bag from the feed store. It has Mol,Barley,etc. It specific to young heifers. I figured the smaller animals werent putting on the same weight because there bigger counterparts were bullying them around and not letting them eat. So I figured I would separate the bigger ones and let them pick on eachother. But as far as my big animal pen does the feed ration that I am feeding them sound okay. This is the first time I have ever fed oats with alfalfa. Normally it is almond hulls but hulls cost 110 a ton compared to 60 on the oats. I am wondering about increasing the alfalfa and decreasing the oats. That being said they are getting pretty close to 17lbs a day on there current ration. This oat thing has thrown me for a loop. I am used to one way of feeding but my tight pockets have changed that up.

 

[auctionboy]

No one feeding cattle or in any business is wrong for try to find the cheapest way to do things. I think you said your larger animals were gaining 2.5 # a day if that is good enough for you keep the same ration, but make the ration less consintrated as there stomach gets bigger. If you can seperate them due so and see for yourself how they do on less oats if you have the scale use it. Also remember oats are very filling and can limit feed consumption.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Just concidering your first pen of 6 wts.
You are not feeding enough energy for better weight gains. And alot of your other mineral levels are WAY out of sque.


I ran it thru my ration calculator- to double check
going to equal parts of alfalfa and oats balances everything out beautifully-
ON PAPER

(I used figures for ave alfalfa and oats)

 

[johnny25]

Again thanks everyone for responding back. I guess my last question for this topic would be, on an individual basis, what is the appropriate amount of feed for each size. I guess 1 ration for 1 animal in each pen. Again taking into consideration that I have very good alfalfa, good clean oats with barley mixed in, and grain at my disposal.
1 450 lbs- LBS of Alfalfa, LBS of oats if needed, Lbs of grain if needed

1 550 lbs-Lbs of Alfalfa, pounds of oats
1-700 lbs- lbs of alfalfa, pounds of oats.

What would be the ideal ration per animal at each given weight. Again thanks everyone for the help. I will actually utilize the rations today on my animals.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Thats where paper numbers fail.
You have to just see what maximum consumption is- with whater you are feeding. Someone already mentioned that high fibre bulk feeds take up more room.

You start with assuming that most animals can eat 2.5lbs of feed/100lbs. Then see if yours can hold more or less and adjust.If you want more gain just keep increasing the lbs fed.

Once you are at maximum consumption(like you will probably see with the 4 wts) to get extra gain you need to reduce bulk and increase TDN(ie increase grain).

Reverse the process if they are getting too fat.

I would stick with 50:50 and see if they can eat enough to meet their growth needs. If not increase the oats or replace some of the oats with corn Or Barley.

I don't know anything about Almond Hulls-- but I would THINK that it doesn't have real high energy values. You have to keep in mind that doing least cost rations doesn't always mean that you use the cheapest ingredients available. If you were having better luck with the Almond Hulls at a lower inclusion rate -- it still may be cheaper to use them.

 

[johnny25]

Howdyjabo- I read your last post and I would say that your formuala was pretty close to what I was previously feeding so I have chosen to increase there feed a little bit to see what I get as far as results. Here is what I think I will be feeding each pen. (assuming oats=80lbs per bale Alfalfa=105)

24 450lb Holsteins- A.M 1.5 alfalfa 1/2 oats
P.M 1.5 alfalfa 50lb grain

15 550 Holsteins- A.M 1 alfalfa 1/2 oats
P.M 1 alfalfa 20 grain

23 700 Holsteins A.M 2 alfalfa 1/2 oats
P.M 2 Alfalfa

I figured I would cut back a little in the afternoon because I am assuming there is going to be some extra feed left over from the morning.

 

[Howdyjabo]

I'm a little lost with your figures--
So heres mine
on the 7 wts

23 head at 700lbs = 16,100lbs
Means that they could eat around 402lbs of feed/day (2.5lbs feed/100lbs wt)

At 50:50
That would mean
200lbs of Alfalfa and 200lbs of OAts/day


Your figures(if I'm understanding them right) make me think you still don't have the oats% up there high enough(for high rates of gain).

Sound like you are measuring your oats by a "bale" -- Thats new to me--out of curiosity explain more.

Maximum consuption- is the weight that at the next feeding there is very little left in the bunk but the bunk is not licked clean-- one of the nice things about feeding a bulky feed is that you can have feed out all day and have less digestive problems.

There may be cheaper ways to get the gain(unless your Alfalfa is real cheap). But its not near as safe.

 

[johnny25]

Yes your right i was measuring the oats bales. Assuming each oat bale weighs 80lbs. Sorry for my ignorance, just remember that oats are new to me, I fed almond hulls and alfalfa for years, but never oats. Anyways, I guess I am confused to because I have always been told that oats were more of a cheap filler not necessarily something that would put on weight. So i figured that if you decreased the alfalfa to make it a 50%alalfa and 50%oats mix then your would probably just maintain weight instead of putting it on. In my head the more alfalfa your feed and less oats you feed the more weight they put on. I always figured that people fed oats because it was cheap not necessarily because it was good for the animals to grow.

 

[dun]

Yes your right i was measuring the oats bales. Assuming each oat bale weighs 80lbs. Sorry for my ignorance, just remember that oats are new to me, I fed almond hulls and alfalfa for years, but never oats. Anyways, I guess I am confused to because I have always been told that oats were more of a cheap filler not necessarily something that would put on weight. So i figured that if you decreased the alfalfa to make it a 50%alalfa and 50%oats mix then your would probably just maintain weight instead of putting it on. In my head the more alfalfa your feed and less oats you feed the more weight they put on. I always figured that people fed oats because it was cheap not necessarily because it was good for the animals to grow.

Is this oats as in the grain? Or is it out straw or oat hay?

dun

 

[johnny25]

Oats as in oat hay.

 

[Howdyjabo]

Ahhh Therin lies our problem

When you say oats I'm thinking the grain.

Must be some real good alfalfa and/or oat hay- to get the gains that you are getting.

To get great gains you need to go to almost half grain.
But...... before you do that calculate how much your gains are costing now-- and what the increased gains would cost/lb gained.

If calves weren't selling so high right now (so the $$$ of each lb is high) you might actually be making more money on cheap slower gains.

 

[johnny25]

Yeah sorry about the oat confusion. As far as the gains, yeah the alfalfa is really nice hay. I throw in the oats to add in a different flavor and its a way of cutting back on alfalfa. I pretty confident that I can get what i want (1.6-1.9lbs a day)
as far as gain with the feed I have. My dad did it for decades and i will continue now with it. I guess my concern was how much to feed. But considering that a lot of heifers were getting the gains i wanted if not more, i think it was just a matter of the bigger dominant heifers picking on the smaller ones and not letting them eat what they wanted. By separating I think it will help. So I think I am going to go with 70 percent alfalfa to 30 percent oat hay. Getting them 2.5 - 3lbs per 100 pound and see what the results will be. With the scale that i have at my disposal maybe i'll weigh them in 2 weeks to see how the results work out.