Most farms must be larger to support today's farm families

[TexasBred]

Bet that certified organic milk brings many times more than $16 a hundred-weight they non organic dairy owner gets paid. Probably more like $80-90 a hundred. But that is one way to approach it as well. Small dairies that have been in operation for many years still fill a small niche but just won't work down here unless they have zero debt servicing and do everything themselves. Hr. I'd just be watching to see if he's able to finish paying for the land BEFORE he sells out. Still think the wise thing to do management wise is to recognize the writing on the wall early and act accordingly.

 

[Busterz]

I think the post about the dairy that does organic milk is a good example of how small farmers/ranchers can survive or even thrive. You have to break out of the traditional commodity market which is set up for large production and small margins.

As to land values, land that is $2000 an acres, isn't a ranch. There is no way that pays for itself so I don't know what you call it but its not purely a ranch. It may be a hobby or an investment but it won't produce a profitable cattle operation.

As to the Brazil comment. My grand parents bought into a ranch in Brazil with some Americans in the 1960's. A few years later, Brazil nationalized the ranch and took it back. Few memeber s of the group tried to stop them and they were shot. I think Brazil is much more stable know but I'm leary of being a foreign owner in another country.

As for the $74,000 figure, I'm not sure that taxes are taken out. But thats a household income from farming, it assumes no outside employment. I'd say thats marginal for being able to raise a family.

 

[hrbelgians]

Bet that certified organic milk brings many times more than $16 a hundred-weight they non organic dairy owner gets paid. Probably more like $80-90 a hundred. But that is one way to approach it as well. Small dairies that have been in operation for many years still fill a small niche but just won't work down here unless they have zero debt servicing and do everything themselves. Hr. I'd just be watching to see if he's able to finish paying for the land BEFORE he sells out. Still think the wise thing to do management wise is to recognize the writing on the wall early and act accordingly.

I understand. I will watch him because he is right against my property.

 

[bigbull338]

organic milk at the farm gate is $20 to $24/100.the only way you can make money off organic milk is a $30/100 farm price.but with feed $16 to $20/100 i dont see how any1 is making money.

 

[TexasBred]

Bull I figured it was $8-9 a gallon...that would be about $90 a hundred..That would make some money but you'd have to have the market for it and in my area folks won't pay that period.

 

[milkmaid]

TB -- I'm told organic milk varies between 20 and 30 per cwt -- it's not that much over nonorganic milk. I'm told that interest in organic milk has dropped/stabilized lately and there's only a few dollars difference between it and non-organic right now.

 

[Busterz]

Here is an article thats a little bit less depressing:

http://www.hpj.com/archives/2008/aug08/ ... rsuedr.cfm

 

[TexasBred]

TB -- I'm told organic milk varies between 20 and 30 per cwt -- it's not that much over nonorganic milk. I'm told that interest in organic milk has dropped/stabilized lately and there's only a few dollars difference between it and non-organic right now.

MM..I know one little place getting $7 for "on farm" raw milk. Not even organic. Maybe it's just the idea of getting WHOLE milk that's attractive. Bet it would be pretty to see cream on top of the jar once again. :lol: I often would draw off a big mug of cold milk right out of the tank and drink it...so cold it would give you a brain freeze....then to know it would never be that cold again nor have all that good butter fat in it once it left my tank, would get me PO'd.

 

[skyline]

I think the post about the dairy that does organic milk is a good example of how small farmers/ranchers can survive or even thrive. You have to break out of the traditional commodity market which is set up for large production and small margins.

As to land values, land that is $2000 an acres, isn't a ranch. There is no way that pays for itself so I don't know what you call it but its not purely a ranch. It may be a hobby or an investment but it won't produce a profitable cattle operation.
As to the Brazil comment. My grand parents bought into a ranch in Brazil with some Americans in the 1960's. A few years later, Brazil nationalized the ranch and took it back. Few memeber s of the group tried to stop them and they were shot. I think Brazil is much more stable know but I'm leary of being a foreign owner in another country.

As for the $74,000 figure, I'm not sure that taxes are taken out. But thats a household income from farming, it assumes no outside employment. I'd say thats marginal for being able to raise a family.

Now that's got me curious... My original post was based upon a minimum of 2 acres per animal grazing unit and a minimum of $2,000 per acre, which is pushing it here in East Texas. You're doing good to stock at a rate of 1 animal unit per 2 acres and you're doing good to find that land for $2,000 per acre. There's not much of that left in East Texas. With an initial investment of at least $5,000 per cow ($4,000 for the land and $1,000 for the cow) most people consider the land cost as a seperate enterprise.

The question I have... considering land values and stocking rates, where are the best remaining places in the US to ranch? You would also have to consider the cost of winter feeding. Here in East Texas, you either have to develop a late fall/winter/early spring grazing plan that relys on cool season annuals with some hay or rely upon hay and supplemental feeding to get it done during the winter. I understand there are other parts of the country where you can take a cow through the winter much cheaper.

So, if someone wanted to start ranching in the US on a scale of around 500 to 1000 head, where would be the most economical place to do it, considering initial investment and annual operating costs?

By the way, this is a mental exercise for me, as I don't have the $$$ to do it.

 

[mermill2]

mississippi,kentucky or parts of tennessee.Grass is good if you are on the right soil.Winters are not so bad.You can get through most with stockpile,some rye and minimial amount of hay.

 

[WhirlingDRanch]

So, if someone wanted to start ranching in the US on a scale of around 500 to 1000 head, where would be the most economical place to do it, considering initial investment and annual operating costs?

Excellent question Skyline.... I am also really curious to see what some of the national stocking rates are like in other areas ... acres needed to support per cow calf pair per year. I was looking in east of Colorado Springs and found out this morning that the stocking rates there are about 40 acres per cow calf pair per year. ouch! :cry2: very sad because I loved the area, but thanks to member Busterz for sending me a link to a local producer in that area... without Busterz lead I think I would have made a great mistake... thanks Busterz!

Interesting to see what the group members stocking rates are like in there state/county/area?

 

[IluvABbeef]

Interesting to see what the group members stocking rates are like in there state/county/area?

Here in Alberta, in the Parkland area has the aspen-poplar bluffs, intermixed with prairie varying from fescue grassland to the western porcupine grass grassland. Located on Dark Brown and Thin Black soils. Average stocking rate is 3.3 acres per AU per month(for native pasture). For tame grassland pasture, average stocking rate is 0.7 acres per AU per month.

 

[mermill2]

About 8.5 aum on good red clay on limestone. 9 on creek and river bottoms.About 2 acres per cow calf unit if you rotate em ,stockpile fescue,utilize wooded areas overgrown with honeysuckle and kudzu.Seed some rye for winter graze.I graze year round only feeding hay on snow and ice days.Most winters snows melted off in a couple of days in my part of Ky.Only got 2 or 3 small snows last winter,maybe 1 or 2 inches at a clip.

 

[iowafarmer]

we stock a little light for our area since we stock at about 1au to 2.5 acres. Could go a lot heavier if we could roate better adn divide the pastures better than now since they are jsut 3 big pastures that we move them to and then back.