More TMW to look at

[KNERSIE]

Not usually how I develop my bulls, but for the last two years I've sent 2 bulls for a growth and feed efficiency test.

They are in week 10 of the test and will finish in two weeks time, 0917 was born mid June 2009 and 0926 late July 2009, have to look the actual dates up.

The one on the left surely hasn't got too much white? ;-) He is horned so he must be better also.

This is the same bullcalf I posted when he was about a month old, different eartag though, I think it was George who asked about him recently.

Ace he is also a halfbrother of the bullcalf you liked that I believed to be better than the one I posted a while back. The photos are pretty bad, my dad (72) took them with a small outdated point and shoot from outside the pens of the bulltest centre and I had a heIl of a job cropping so that I actually have something to post

 

[Hereford76]

by those pictures it looks like your old man was trying to get a picture of the polled bull. can't really tell much about the one in the background... but along the lines with the comments on TMW this picture kind of provides an example for what i was getting at. if given the choice between those two bulls i think more often than not the polled bull with more white on him would get passed on simply because of it especially when going into a hereford herd.

i don't know about you guys but in my commercial hereford herd i see no difference in pigment on baldie calves sired by an angus bull by cow families that are heavy in pigment or light. i see no difference in baldy calves' pgiment in commercial customers black herds sired by hereford bulls heavily or light pigmented.

i'd be interested to hear comments on how high you guys feel the correlation between lack of pigment and both eye cancer and skin cancer is. and comments on the same correlation for the guys down south that always complain about pink eye.

 

[smnherf]

My advice for what it is worth is to buy the bull on phenotype and genotype and if you can get the color pattern then take it. I see many times that people are paying a very big premium for the goggle eyes or the red legs and neck and sacrificing performance in the process.

15 years ago, I had a very dollar conscientous neighbor who would quite frequently buy bulls with white legs and sometimes even white up to the shoulders. They were always some of the better quality bulls but others penalized them and he bought them very cheap. When he bred them to generic black cows, you couldn't tell at all they were out of white legged bulls.

As far as having pigment on eyes as a protection against pinkeye and cancer eye, I wouldn't bet the farm on it either. Pinkeye is a bacterial infection that can thrive in any color cattle. I know of several angus breeders who have had to mass medicate their herd for it. I see herds that have hereford, blk and bwf calves and cows in a group and the incidence of pinkeye is prevalant in all them wether they were whiteface or not. Control the flies and keep your vitamin A level high and pinkeye is very manageable.

Cancer eye is a highly heritable disease. About .40 I think. I would much rather have a no pigmented cow with a history of no cancer eye than a goggle eyed cow whose mother had cancer eye.

The breeding of the angus can also affect the color pattern of the white on the face of the calf too. When we were AI ing angus on my dads hereford heifers, quite often some bulls would put a brockle face on all their calves while some bulls would consistently leave an open face on their calves.

Brian

 

[I luv herfrds]

I like the polled bull Knersie. Would like to see a better pic of the other bull.

TMW? Who ever complains about that would not like the Ribstone cow I have. I talked to Ace about her and she has a long feather neck on her. She passed a white spot onto her daughter, it is in the middle of her back.
this cow is an awesome mother, great udder on her, but cull her because of TMW? heck NO!

 

[KNERSIE]

Ace, pigment around the eye plays almost no role in the prevention of pink eye, the eyeset , -brows and -lashes are far more important. BUT the popular believe is that it it prevents every problem you van think of so why not give them what they like?

Pigment especially on the lower eyelid plays a role in the prevention of skin cancer caused by UV radiation, but again the total package is more important. I believe that the darker the red the pinker the white skin is, those really pink eyes is what causes problems here, if the unpigmented skin is a more yellowish cream colour its just as good as red pigment in my opinion.

How much white is on the legs or how long the featherneck plays no role at all in breeding problem free eyes. There are more functional traits to worry about than petty things such as markings. As long as it is within the acceptable original breed standards it is good enough for me.

 

[KNERSIE]

I like the polled bull Knersie. Would like to see a better pic of the other bull.

TMW? Who ever complains about that would not like the Ribstone cow I have. I talked to Ace about her and she has a long feather neck on her. She passed a white spot onto her daughter, it is in the middle of her back.
this cow is an awesome mother, great udder on her, but cull her because of TMW? heck NO!

I agree Cris, cull for the functional traits and don't get blinded by the unimportant stuff.

 

[rocket2222]

That's the way it would work around here, even if the darker colored bull was not as good he would sell first if priced the same as a better bull with a lot of white. I don't think your dad did to bad, whole lot better pics than a lot of them you see. Just from the side shots I think I'd like the horned bulls head a little better, a little cleaner fronted too, although I think you've said you like a little extra leather, I like the polled bulls depth and rib shape, but the horned bulls coat looks a little nicer, finer with a little more shine to it in these pics. On the other hand, the most interest I've ever had on the farm web site, was for a heifer that I posted a picture of, that had a lot of white on her, I got more calls and emails from people wanting to buy her than anything else I've posted pictures of.

 

[KNERSIE]

Paul at 9 1/2 months I don't think you can compare the younger bull's head to one that is almost 6 weeks older. Typically horned bulls have better heads than the typical poll bull, although I have seen some terrible L1 heads.

You are probably right about the coats, in my experience the darker cattle tend to have a slightly more coarse coat than the more yellow cattle. The horned bull's dam's coat isn't as good as the polled bull's dam's. Both sires has very good coats.

I love the way the horned bull carries his head, love his heavyset bone and his topline and width from end to end, just wish he had the chest depth of the poll bull. The poll bull probably could have done with a touch more neck extension and a touch more bone

 

[rocket2222]

Paul at 9 1/2 months I don't think you can compare the younger bull's head to one that is almost 6 weeks older. Typically horned bulls have better heads than the typical poll bull, although I have seen some terrible L1 heads.

You are probably right about the coats, in my experience the darker cattle tend to have a slightly more coarse coat than the more yellow cattle. The horned bull's dam's coat isn't as good as the polled bull's dam's. Both sires has very good coats.

I love the way the horned bull carries his head, love his heavyset bone and his topline and width from end to end, just wish he had the chest depth of the poll bull. The poll bull probably could have done with a touch more neck extension and a touch more bone

Yes, probably too much age difference to compare, but I still think he'll have the better head, :lol: as for the way he carries it, I think it starts at his shoulder, and the way the necks attached, all the way through, I think he's just got a really nice front end on him.