Montana or Louisiana?

[Rough'n'Ready Plantation]

Hi all,
Haven't been on here in months, school got really busy this semester. I had always assumed that I would return home to farm (in Benton, LA (extreme NW Louisiana.) But I've been pondering a lot recently and I'm thinking that maybe this isn't the best region for me to farm. The subdivisions are only 3 or 4 miles south from our place and they are marching northward. And the laws here state that if your cows get loose and a car hits them that person can sue you for your whole farm potentially. Montana, on the other hand, is "Big Sky country" and the open range laws are a lot more favorable than here in Louisiana. I've never been to Montana, but I plan on going this summer for a graduation trip before i start grad. school. I have seen "Legends of the Fall" though and have researched a lot about the state. Something about it just really appeals to me. I'm not going to make any hard decisions until I visit Montana though. Are there any ranchers on here that are from Montana? How many acres per cow do you figure on? How many months of forage is usually available? How much is the average rent per acre and value per acre? I would enjoy hearing your inputs on the advantages and disadvantages of raising cattle in Montana. I plan on having a small purebred Murray Grey herd and a much larger crossbred herd with Angus bulls. Farming probably won't be the main way I make my living, I'm focusing on futures trading as my main money maker. I'm probably going to the University of Illinois for grad. school, focusing on futures and stock trading. So even if it's a bit more expensive to farm in Montana I wouldn't be too concerned. Thanks for all your inputs.
Sincerely,
Lee

 

[novaman]

I'm not from Montana but North Dakota is somewhat familiar to the eastern part of MT. The big thing is this area is limited rainfall. Even when we aren't in a drought most years are not overly wet. That combined with some rougher, less then prime land results in grazing conditions that don't support the cows per acre. I think something you will notice up here is that land probably isn't as expensive as in LA. Just a couple of things to think about but I'm sure there are others on this board that can answer your questions better.

 

[Susie David]

Moving to Montana.....bring $$$ lots of it. Turning into a rich kids playground...except eastern Montana but not alot of folks want to play there.
Just my two bits worth....DMc

 

[rkm]

I'm not from Montana, but I live in north. Better spend a winter in Montana before you decide to raise cattle there. Brrrrrrr! :shock: :shock: Just my thought.

 

[Ryder]

Moving to Montana.....bring $$$ lots of it. Turning into a rich kids playground...except eastern Montana but not alot of folks want to play there.
Just my two bits worth....DMc

I might add, bring $$$ lots of it if you plan to trade futures.
Correction, don't bring much $. The less you have the less you have to lose.

 

[Beef11]

I'm from the neighbor to Montana, Idaho. It seems that it is tough to find an operation that pencils like they should, my feeling is the real estate boom we're coming out of didn't forget about the ranching world. Cattle ranches bring a premium now do to their scenic value as well as recreational, hunting, timber, mineral and atmospheric values. I guess if you try and sell products off of all of them they might pencil abit better. Montana is a great state but a world away from my beloved Dixie. Everything agriculture is very different in either region. Don't let me discourage you, but i myself wonder about different regions and the ability to establish viable livestock enterprises in them. The cost of running an AU will vary from place to place but so will the price of the cattle in those regions as well. Some people get the best of both worlds.

 

[Bobg]

I was born and raised in Montana and would go back at the drop of a hat if I could find a job there. Most of the ranches that you hear about are owned by out of staters and most are not selfsufficient. There are a few of the big places that are still family owned, but the place has been in the families for well over a 100 years. I can't give you any carrying capacity figures, but land prices have sky rocketed in the last 10 years. I have a friend who was going to take a job with the state of Montana and wanted to take his 35 cows with him. He called a realtor and for the amount of land he needed prices were around a million and a half. My stepfather leases out all of his pasture and he's been getting $25/head/month, grazing season is usually from April thru October depending on locality.

If I get a chance to move back I'd take my cows, our family still owns a 200 acres of irrigated land southwest of Billings which will run around 65 pair and be selfsufficient.

Bobg

 

[mnmtranching]

I don't live in Montana, but total I've spent about three years in Eastern MT. First, its in every way a different world from Louisiana.

There are plenty of jobs available as ranch hands. Pay is by the month, few weekends off. Ranchers know nothing of forty hr weeks. The feeding season is long up there and lots of haying.
River systems have extensive irrigation their a oasis in the desert.
Eastern MT averages about 12 in precipation annually. Most of the land stores moisture real well, so on the average year even dryland will have a good crop of hay. Few people and fewer towns. Eastern MT does not appeal to the wealthy like the Western part of the state, thats out of the question for anyone except the very wealthy. Eastern MT is indeed cattle country, The average cowherd is 4 to 5 hundred and many herds are in the thousands. Its hard for new guys to break into cattle business. The public land grazing is long termed leased by ranchers and many livelyhoods depend on it.
The quality of the land for grazing varies greatly. The rangeland will support on average about 20 pair per section.
Even a small ranch is well into the millions$. The only way for new folks to break into ranching is to have some money.

Good luck.

mnmt

 

[dcara]

If you want to move from LA to MT I suggest you visit it in January, not the summer, before you make your decession.

 

[Rough'n'Ready Plantation]

Sounds like I better do awesome at futures trading if I want to buy a ranch in western Montana haha. Sounds like western Montana is my main shot to have mountains in the background of my ranch. I know the winters are brutal up there, but personally I can't stand the heat down here in the summer. Maybe, if i'm ever financially well off enough, I'll have 2 ranches, 1 in Montana and 1 in Louisiana, and spend June-September in Montana and the rest of the year in Louisiana. Ah, it's nice to dream right?

 

[dun]

If you want mountains there is always Nevada. Lots of desert land available.
It gets a bit toasty in some parts but we sold a place in north central NV that was in the same USDA cli9mate zone as norhtern MT.

dun

 

[bob g]

"futures trading as my main money maker."


Paper trade for at least a year....to make a living, you will need a bunch of capital....

Three out of four trades will be losers, use stops even under your winners. Lots of leverage in futures, the potential for a big loss is in every trade. Protect your trading capital.

Learn all you can about technical analysis (trends, price and volume)....

The art of contrarian thinking will make you more money than any other trading tool. Several good books to read.

Good Luck! This is not an easy way to make a living.

BTW, the cheapest land in the USA is in Carroll County Mississippi....Plenty of moisture, great climate, fertile soil, low taxes, good people. My humble opinion.

Bob Graves
Winona, Ms

 

[CopeMan]

Hi all,
Haven't been on here in months, school got really busy this semester. I had always assumed that I would return home to farm (in Benton, LA (extreme NW Louisiana.) But I've been pondering a lot recently and I'm thinking that maybe this isn't the best region for me to farm. The subdivisions are only 3 or 4 miles south from our place and they are marching northward. And the laws here state that if your cows get loose and a car hits them that person can sue you for your whole farm potentially. Montana, on the other hand, is "Big Sky country" and the open range laws are a lot more favorable than here in Louisiana. I've never been to Montana, but I plan on going this summer for a graduation trip before i start grad. school. I have seen "Legends of the Fall" though and have researched a lot about the state. Something about it just really appeals to me. I'm not going to make any hard decisions until I visit Montana though. Are there any ranchers on here that are from Montana? How many acres per cow do you figure on? How many months of forage is usually available? How much is the average rent per acre and value per acre? I would enjoy hearing your inputs on the advantages and disadvantages of raising cattle in Montana. I plan on having a small purebred Murray Grey herd and a much larger crossbred herd with Angus bulls. Farming probably won't be the main way I make my living, I'm focusing on futures trading as my main money maker. I'm probably going to the University of Illinois for grad. school, focusing on futures and stock trading. So even if it's a bit more expensive to farm in Montana I wouldn't be too concerned. Thanks for all your inputs.
Sincerely,
Lee

Legends of the Fall was filmed in Alberta Canada.

 

[CopeMan]

If you want to move from LA to MT I suggest you visit it in January, not the summer, before you make your decession.

I agree. If you want to live out west, you need to live there through one winter. January and Febuary with -40 degree weather and 8 ft. snow drifts is not to fun. I dont know about Montana, but in Colorado up in the Rockys you cant drink the water from the creeks and streams because they are so parasitic. Is it the same for other western states?

 

[allenfarms]

True, You might try Lonesome Dove. LOL

I also have a question, so you want out of LA>but why are you set on Montana? Like one extreme to the other try a happy medium.

Lots of luck ;-)

 

[Ryder]

BTW, the cheapest land in the USA is in Carroll County Mississippi....Plenty of moisture, great climate, fertile soil, low taxes, good people. My humble opinion.

Bob Graves
Winona, Ms

How much is land going for there, Bob?

 

[allenfarms]

I work in Real Estate and according to "Realtor" It is about $2050 per acre there. How ever I seen listings there alot higher!

 

[sjr725]

our place is near Helena (State Capital, so you can maybe get a paying job?) on the east slope. Prices of land vary hugely depending on location - you can probably still get some marginal pasture land out in eastern MT for reasonable price but in the west it's high - here near Helena expect to pay upwards of $5000 per ac for anything irrigated - there are still quite a few larger acerage tracts available but you get what you pay for. We're lucky and bought our place that adjoins my dads place from a neighbor in 1986 we bought a section (360 acres) with good house, small barn, corrals and wheel line irrigation with good water allotment from the irrigation co-op, and we have an old family lease on nearby forest service ground for summer pasture. We farm our 360 acres of alfalfa hay and part of my dad's place (about another 200 acres) then we summer cattle in the mountains. We only get 2 cuttings of hay most years - we water the fields again after the 2nd to bring up the hay for pasture in the fall when the cows come home. We will generally have to feed from late December (if the snow doesn't cover the pastures) until they go back to the mountains in mid May. Below zero temps are possible from late Sept until June - we've had snow in July and August! Get yourself a good team and sled to feed in the winter - tractors probably won't start if you don't have them in the barn and plugged in! We calve beginning of Feb. and wean in October. I can't think of anything else to tell you except buy good Carhart coats and White packs.

 

[llcupit]

Born and raised in Ms. lived all over, but feel like Ks. Is where I should have been all along. It feels like home should feel. ;-)

 

[badroute]

RnR,

I'm a Montanan born and raised in the eastern part of the state. I can tell you that if you realistically want to ranch in Montana it will have to be the eastern part. If you are wanting mountains as a backdrop that land is flat out impossible to pencil out running cows or farming. Here in eastern Montana is probably one of the last best places to buy a good grass ranch and still have a shot at making it pencil.

This country is some of the hardest grass country around, there is a reason feedlots want these northern-tier cattle. I personally dont think the mountains of western Montana with their wishy-washy grass can compete with ours. They may have higher stocking rates but we get more bang for our buck.

So if you are serious about Montana make sure you give central and eastern Montana a hard look.