mob grazer needing water help

[gotfire]

About 1/2 of my pastures I can water using the crick with a gravity fed system. I have a 1,000 gallon concert tank with 8” PVC pipe with strainer going into the creek and 2”” poly pipe running out the bottom. This feeds all of my lower pastures with 30 to 40 PSI depending on what part of the pasture I’m in.

The other 1/2 of the pastures I haul water up a hill with 1500 gallon trailer. I set 3 500 gallon portable tanks down and feed them into the 2”” poly pipe (this area is shaded). The trailer feeds the portable tanks with a float so I can chock the wheels, plug up the pipe, pull the trailer pin, and walk away. Depending on what part of the pasture I’m in I get 20 to 35 PSI. Depending on the temps and where the cows are at I have made 3 trips in a day to keep up with there water needs. In the winter we pack it all up in a barn till the next year.

Were breading around 350 head of cattle every year. We wean them at about 7 months at the beginning of April. After splitting them up we and mob graze the adults and rotational the calves for a few weeks till they will start mob grazing.

I’m ready to tie the 2 pipe systems together and put in the pump. I have talked to my plumber and he says 1/3 horse will do. But has no idea what size presser tank or tanks would you go with? We were talking about just tossing the pump on a stand laying on its side and running out the 2” poly pipe. We did talk about a pump with an overheat shutdown on it incase the water runs out. We would put in a hydrant at the shop and both barns (barns have no water).

We would do all the work but pump and wiring the switch. Only need to run 60’ of wire and about 80’ of poly pipe. We only have 1 fence to build and cutting down a bunch of trees.

With the cost of fuel and just starting a tractor to move a trailer I’m sure it would pay off with the wear and tear.
What size presser tanks do I need to cut out the pump cycles?

 

[CKC1586]

For a second I was trying to shoosh a bug off my screen....that is a crazy funny avitar you have there! :lol:

 

[Angus Cowman]

I would talk to some well drillers in your are they can give you the most info on tank and pump size

 

[gotfire]

What bug?

I asked a well driller and wanted to know why the cows can't drink out of a stream.

Most of the farms around me send there cows to a creak, pond, or the river depending on witch is on there land.

 

[backhoeboogie]

If you are going to use a 1/3 horse power pump, why would you run 2 inch pipe?

Your static pressure figures confuse the heck out of me. 27.71 inches of water column is 1 psi and it is a linear equation; e.g. 277 inches is about 10 PSI, at sea level, at 68 degress with all the stars and moon aligned etc. etc. Anyway, to get 35 psi out of your portable tank, you'd need about 110 feet of gravity elevation.

The 2 inch pipe will be excellent for freeze protection as it is harder to freeze plug water in pipes that size. The K factors are excellent too but it is overkill for that small of a pump.

 

[gotfire]

Frost line is 36” where I’m at; all my pipes are at 42” so I’m not too concerned about water freezing. I’m planning on adding about 80 more feet of pipe to connect the 2 lines and to add a few hydrants. I put in the 2” lines because I got them second hand for 1/2 the cost of getting them new. I still have a few rolls if you need some. Where the portable tanks are the pipe is out of the ground and will get fixed.

I don’t have flat land. I have my portable tanks on the top of a hill in some shade. From the water tanks to the very bottom of the pasture I “think” would be 4 or 5 hundred feet. The pump will be placed at about the middle.

Yes 2” pipe is over kill. And with a 1/3 horse power pump with fairly low head I should be good to go.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I don’t have flat land. I have my portable tanks on the top of a hill in some shade. From the water tanks to the very bottom of the pasture I “think” would be 4 or 5 hundred feet. The pump will be placed at about the middle.

Call me stupid. I need you to draw me a picture I guess. 5 hundred feet of lift and your pump is in the middle? So that is 250 foot of lift head above the pump. You need to create about 110 psi to have 2 psi at the top and that pump is not going to do it.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

Your local NRCS office should be able to help you engineer your system. Go visit with them.

Also you could check with powerflex fence. I think they have experience in this area.

http://powerflexfence.com/

 

[gotfire]

I called a Well pump place this morning and talked to them. The guy that I got put to will design what I need.

He thinks after 10 min on the phone that he has a 1/2 horse power pump and a 50 gallon expansion tank I think and presser reducer valve to feed the lower half of the pasture. I know the presser will be different everywhere but I can live with it.

The top part of the pasture is 150’ head with 650’ run. The bottom pasture is 80’ of drop with 800’ run. There are hydrants along both runs.

I’m thinking that I might need a second or larger expansion tank to keep the cycles down.

I’m going to call NRCS after lunch.

Thank you for your help.

 

[Angus Cowman]

One thing to check on is the price diff between a 1/2hp 3/4hp and a 1hp pump when I put in my new well their was only $150 between 3/4hp and a1 hp pump and the 1hp pump will work less and last longer kinda like the diff between a 4cyl and a v8 engine in our trk 4cyl might do it but v8 will do it more efficiently and last longer
just my 2 cents

 

[S B Knap]

Another option would to put a timer on your well that would run it a couple times a day for a certain amount of time. A defrost time clock would do the trick and would eliminate a pressure tank. Scott

 

[grubbie]

Another option would to put a timer on your well that would run it a couple times a day for a certain amount of time. A defrost time clock would do the trick and would eliminate a pressure tank. Scott

Problem there is that if he needs to run a hydrant, he can only do it when the timer kicks the pump on. Something I'd like to mention here is to keep it simple as possible. More tanks and switches = more things that can go wrong. If you can hook everything up to get water from your 3500 gal. storage tank, (using your tank for head pressure), you could just put a float switch in your tank so the pump kicks on when the level in the tank is low. One line from pump to storage tank, then short lines from tank to hydrants. This would lower your pump cycles as well. Does away with the pressure tank and would be a pretty simple little system. Don't know much about your weather and about freezing temps for a storage tank, but it's a thought. In this country it would have to be a pretty big tank, or a high turnover rate to keep from freezing. Oh and by the way, overkill is the word for the day when it comes to pumps. Go big.

 

[dun]

Something that we did in a couple of places was use a 5k gallon holding tank above ground. Pumped into it when it got down about half way. Used water pressure from the volume of water and gravity to provide water to the various water points. One place had a redwood tank the other had a galvanized tank

 

[gotfire]

I called NRCS and they gave me a phone number of a guy to call. He just left about 20 min ago. He made map with his GPS on his laptop. He told me he would work it up and have it to me Friday on my email with all the info. I only had to pay $50 of the cost for this and some government agency picked up the rest (my taxes).

He did say I needed a 3/4 at the least and it would last longer being a 1 hp pump.
Some of the notes I took are in my truck… It’s a cycle stop valve with lowers the amount of times the pump will cycle. He says it will use less power.

I don’t think I want to go with a storage system on a hill because of winters but would be the way to go when the power goes out.


***I was miss lead.****

 

[backhoeboogie]

He did say I needed a 3/4 at the least and it would last longer being a 1 hp pump.
Some of the notes I took are in my truck… But there is a valve you can put in the line that runs the pump 24/7. He says it will use less power.

The electrical engineers always tell me power goes with flow. We often throttle the flow. More flow, more power - out of the same pump. So what he is saying makes sense from that perspective. But if you only need to run that pump a few hours a day......... 24/7 sounds extreme

 

[gotfire]

Backhoeboogie I should have looked up the info and researched it before I spoke. He miss lead me or didn’t understand him. I did fix my last post. Sorry about that.

He was talking about a cycle stop valve to cut down the amount of times the pump starts and cuts the flow rate of the pump back. It dose not run the pump 24/7 but the pump will run more time the it did before and some how uses less power.

I ran a bunch of numbers on a few different setups and don’t know what I’m planning what we are going to do. We should not need to think about moving hauling water for about 100 days so we will n ear it down soon.