Minimum bids

[KMacGinley]

You might have to buy a few more freezers until prices change.

Nope, just sharpen the knife a little more. Supply and demand is a wonderful tool.

Ain't that the truth.

 

[user1]

This reminds me of the story of two auctioneers. They were braggin about how good they were. The first one says if he had two good bidders he could caress and entice them to get the top dollar. The second auctioneer says he could top that all he needed was a good crowd and one good bidder.

 

[Brandonm22]

Those of you who think a $1500 minimum price on a bull is too high haven't put a pencil to the feed cost of raising a bull, semen test cost, vaccinations, ultrasound cost, registrations, etc. Don't forget your labor cost either, unless you are donating your time to a non-profit organization.

There is nothing set in stone that says that you get to make money on every bull every year either. Put a pencil to the feed cost of raising a market calf, vaccinations, minerals, ear tag, pasture costs, hay costs, fertilizer costs, etc and don't forget your labor either. Market calves all over the place are selling for 84 cents a lb (or less). THAT is the market, take it or leave it this fall and bulls all over the place can be had for less than $1500 (heck I saw reg. Angus 2 year olds sell for $1300 and less a few weeks ago).

 

[BC]

I know, that is what kills me. If they would just play it honest, they could end up with it way above any minimum, but if I think that a cow is worth $1200 and they won't start her at anything under $1500 I don't bid. I may have gotten carried away if she started at say,,,, $900 and me and several others got on her and ran her up. They will get no help from me starting at a high floor.

How would you handle the situation where the seller wanted $1500 for his animal or he would take them home? If you start the bidding below that figure in hopes of getting it above $1500 and the bidding does not reach the minimum, how should that be handled?

What it boils down to is you have an idea of what you are willing to pay for an animal. Do you want the auctioneer to start the animal low and then "roll" on up to the minimum set by the seller? Or would you prefer that they start at a minimum and just "pass out" any animals that do not get a minimum bid?

 

[Elder Statesman]

Those of you who think a $1500 minimum price on a bull is too high haven't put a pencil to the feed cost of raising a bull, semen test cost, vaccinations, ultrasound cost, registrations, etc. Don't forget your labor cost either, unless you are donating your time to a non-profit organization.

There is nothing set in stone that says that you get to make money on every bull every year either. Put a pencil to the feed cost of raising a market calf, vaccinations, minerals, ear tag, pasture costs, hay costs, fertilizer costs, etc and don't forget your labor either. Market calves all over the place are selling for 84 cents a lb (or less). THAT is the market, take it or leave it this fall and bulls all over the place can be had for less than $1500 (heck I saw reg. Angus 2 year olds sell for $1300 and less a few weeks ago).

I'm not suprised about the Angus bull prices. That has been going on for the past two years. That is supply and demand. Everyone and their dog is selling Angus bulls and the market is flooded. More people needed to use their knife a little more. I have seen a lot of Hereford production sales this fall that the avg. price was just as good this year as last year. And I'm talking range bull sales, not the show jocks trading bulls.

Your price depends on your market. There are folks who will pay at least a $1.60-1.75/lb. hanging weight for freezer beef. A 16-18 month old bull weighing 1400 lbs. tastes pretty good and will bring more than at the sale barn.

84 cents a lb. is NOT my market. Neither are $1300 bulls.

 

[donnaIL]

Our locker (our processor) sells them for 2.10 hanging weight, they provide processing. Still works out to be $1.60, $1.70 lb on the hangin weight plus the .40 per lb for processing, and I guarantee if the meat is better they charge more. Im not saying thats a bull, but it might be a cross bred animal or any well fed animal that is young. I sold a cross bred bull at the sale barn last year for over $1400, I don't think they are being unreasonable. I am assuming they have customers that will pay that, be it beef or not.

 

[DOC HARRIS]

Elder Statesman-

You hit the target smack in the center! Some of us have been trying to beat the drum of "reducing costs and lowering mature cow weights" to cut feeding expenses, and at the same time improve Breed quality by GENETICALLY improving "Feed Efficiency" in our seedstock - to put PROFIT back into the Beef Production Bu$ine$$. Some breeders understand that syllogism, and some bow their necks and contend that that premise is NOT deductive logic - that we are "Selling Pounds! Aren't we??" - - -something about leading a horse to water - but you can't - - - well,- - you get the point!

DOC HARRIS

 

[Angus Cowman]

I am gonna put my 2 cents in here

I am a comm op and I have never pd $1500 for a bull
I fgure if I want good genetics I have to pay for it becasue it will pay me back in lbs so I always have to pay alot more for a good bull
I also feel that a reg breeder should pay alot more than $1500 for a bull because if they don't what are they really getting just a avg bull and I think this is what has hurt the reg Breeders because everyone and their brother is raising reg bulls and then you have to look real hard to find something above avg

I don't mean to offend anyone but it is kinda like the comm bus if the part timers or hobby guys would stay out then there would not be nearly as much fluctuation in the market

I have also seen reg breeders raise animals that I wouldn't have on the place as comm cows

 

[dun]

I have also seen reg breeders raise animals that I wouldn't have on the place as comm cows

And sadly they will sell bulls from those sorry cows.

 

[user1]

And sadly they will sell bulls from those sorry cows

And sadly someone will buy these bulls

 

[dun]

And sadly they will sell bulls from those sorry cows

And sadly someone will buy these bulls

And worse, they'll think they have a great bull

 

[user1]

And worse, they'll think they have a great bull

Ain't that the truth

 

[mnmtranching]

I think minimum bid is OK, but the way prices are now for those selling feeders. $1500 will keep a lot of cow/calf folks away. Better to get people at the auction. I think by Spring there will be lots of good bulls for lots less then $1500.

 

[Brandonm22]

I think minimum bid is OK, but the way prices are now for those selling feeders. $1500 will keep a lot of cow/calf folks away. Better to get people at the auction. I think by Spring there will be lots of good bulls for lots less then $1500.

It is already happening. I got my AL Farmers and Consumers Bulletin yesterday. I am quoting here without the names, phones, and addresses:

"10 Charolais Bulls 20 - 30 mos ready for hard work $1200 - 1500 (Covington) "(County)

"Reg Red Angus bulls 18 mos - 4 yo good growth calving ease bulls, good EPDs $1200/up (Limestone)"

"Reg Brangus bulls $1500 (Clay)"

"12 reg Angus bulls $1250/up, gentle, homegrown, hand fed; we have several exce heifer bulls (Morgan)"

"reg Beefmaster heifer's, bulls 9 mos/up $700/up (Randolph)"

"Simmental, Angus/Simmental bulls reg. polled black, red, most AI'd $1500/up (St Clair)" (I actually know that guy and he does have good stuff).

"Charolais bull's reg polled, King Grazer, Magnum 93 bloodlines, all ages $1200/up (Etowah)"

"Reg. Limousin bulls red & black, double polled, gentle, LBW, 10-34 mos $1400-1650. (Bullock)"

"4 black Simmental and Simmental-Angus bulls $1500; young bulls $800 (Chilton)"

"Polled Hereford bulls, gentle, fertile, easy keeping, passed BSEs, satisfaction guaranteed $1250/up (St Clair)" (Again I know him, have owned one of his bulls in the past, and he has good stuff with a bunch of years of breeding behind them. He's the vet that writes the Progressive Farmer column).

"reg. Beefmaster bulls polled yearling to breeding age $900/up (Randolph)"

"Reg. Black Angus bull yearling, sire is Mytty in Focus bred at Barry College, calve ease pasture raised $900 (Cherokee)"

"Fullblood Angus bulls 12-14 mos, top bloodlines, reasonable priced $900-1000 (Fayette)" (no name and address but I am pretty sure I know where this guy's herd is)

"Cow Creek sired Brangus bulls 10-17 mos $875-975 (Marion)"

"Reg. Black Angus bulls 10-13 mos $1000/up gentle with quality bloodlines (Marion)"

"5 reg Black Angus bulls 10-16 mos $850-900 LBW genetics, exce bloodlines, Bon View New Design (Barbour)"

And I COULD go on. I realize Alabama is a BAD example right now. 2006 and 2007 were back to back drought years so nobody has any hay held over from last year. This fall was real dry, then frost hit hard in most of the state in October so our normally reliable winter annuals really didn't provide much fall grazing and nobody was really able too stockpile fescue either. Everybody is feeding hay at least a month earlier than they would normally (and we haven't had a "normal" year since 2005). As spotty as the rain was, some people put up whole barns full of hay and some folks in some counties got only one good cutting and our feeder prices were all over the place last month from good too flat out bad from week to week barn to barn class to class. I can't see the pattern.

Folks don't want to be carrying bulls and are trying too dump them so they don't have to feed them. The dude that holds bulls too April may find they are scarce around here and he can charge $2500/up, but that is a heck of a gamble right now.

 

[greatgerts]

I think minimum bid is OK, but the way prices are now for those selling feeders. $1500 will keep a lot of cow/calf folks away. Better to get people at the auction. I think by Spring there will be lots of good bulls for lots less then $1500.

It is already happening. I got my AL Farmers and Consumers Bulletin yesterday. I am quoting here without the names, phones, and addresses:

"10 Charolais Bulls 20 - 30 mos ready for hard work $1200 - 1500 (Covington) "(County)

"Reg Red Angus bulls 18 mos - 4 yo good growth calving ease bulls, good EPDs $1200/up (Limestone)"

"Reg Brangus bulls $1500 (Clay)"

"12 reg Angus bulls $1250/up, gentle, homegrown, hand fed; we have several exce heifer bulls (Morgan)"

"reg Beefmaster heifer's, bulls 9 mos/up $700/up (Randolph)"

"Simmental, Angus/Simmental bulls reg. polled black, red, most AI'd $1500/up (St Clair)" (I actually know that guy and he does have good stuff).

"Charolais bull's reg polled, King Grazer, Magnum 93 bloodlines, all ages $1200/up (Etowah)"

"Reg. Limousin bulls red & black, double polled, gentle, LBW, 10-34 mos $1400-1650. (Bullock)"

"4 black Simmental and Simmental-Angus bulls $1500; young bulls $800 (Chilton)"

"Polled Hereford bulls, gentle, fertile, easy keeping, passed BSEs, satisfaction guaranteed $1250/up (St Clair)" (Again I know him, have owned one of his bulls in the past, and he has good stuff with a bunch of years of breeding behind them. He's the vet that writes the Progressive Farmer column).

"reg. Beefmaster bulls polled yearling to breeding age $900/up (Randolph)"

"Reg. Black Angus bull yearling, sire is Mytty in Focus bred at Barry College, calve ease pasture raised $900 (Cherokee)"

"Fullblood Angus bulls 12-14 mos, top bloodlines, reasonable priced $900-1000 (Fayette)" (no name and address but I am pretty sure I know where this guy's herd is)

"Cow Creek sired Brangus bulls 10-17 mos $875-975 (Marion)"

"Reg. Black Angus bulls 10-13 mos $1000/up gentle with quality bloodlines (Marion)"

"5 reg Black Angus bulls 10-16 mos $850-900 LBW genetics, exce bloodlines, Bon View New Design (Barbour)"

And I COULD go on. I realize Alabama is a BAD example right now. 2006 and 2007 were back to back drought years so nobody has any hay held over from last year. This fall was real dry, then frost hit hard in most of the state in October so our normally reliable winter annuals really didn't provide much fall grazing and nobody was really able too stockpile fescue either. Everybody is feeding hay at least a month earlier than they would normally (and we haven't had a "normal" year since 2005). As spotty as the rain was, some people put up whole barns full of hay and some folks in some counties got only one good cutting and our feeder prices were all over the place last month from good too flat out bad from week to week barn to barn class to class. I can't see the pattern.

Folks don't want to be carrying bulls and are trying too dump them so they don't have to feed them. The dude that holds bulls too April may find they are scarce around here and he can charge $2500/up, but that is a heck of a gamble right now.

Do breeders actually own that many cows that they have that number of bulls for sale? I may keep 1 or 2 bulls a year from 50 head of cows, depending on quality, and sometimes those will get banded if I feel they are not up to par with my criteria. Seeing that amount of bulls for sale, some may have to get their knives out. I understand about drought situations, but cut them and let them graze or something. I wouldn't want that many bulls on my place without cows to breed.

 

[Frankie]

Randy Blach from CattleFax told the Gelbvieh board of directors recently that, as the national cow herd shrinks, we'll need 50,000 fewer bulls in the next few years. That's a lot of bulls and is going to put pressure bull prices and seedstock producers of all breeds.

http://www.gelbvieh.org/gelbvieh_world/ ... e_0708.pdf

 

[RD-Sam]

I am gonna put my 2 cents in here

I am a comm op and I have never pd $1500 for a bull
I fgure if I want good genetics I have to pay for it becasue it will pay me back in lbs so I always have to pay alot more for a good bull
I also feel that a reg breeder should pay alot more than $1500 for a bull because if they don't what are they really getting just a avg bull and I think this is what has hurt the reg Breeders because everyone and their brother is raising reg bulls and then you have to look real hard to find something above avg

I don't mean to offend anyone but it is kinda like the comm bus if the part timers or hobby guys would stay out then there would not be nearly as much fluctuation in the market

I have also seen reg breeders raise animals that I wouldn't have on the place as comm cows

I think you can do something part time or as a hobby and still do it correctly, it just has to do with the person and their desire to have the best cattle possible.

 

[novatech]

Buying a good bull has not one thing to do with who is selling it, or what you pay for it. It has everything to do with how intelligent one is when selecting it. I have seen far to many common bulls sold for high prices just because buyers want name brand bulls from so-n-so ranch. You don't always get what you pay for.

 

[Brandonm22]

Do breeders actually own that many cows that they have that number of bulls for sale? I may keep 1 or 2 bulls a year from 50 head of cows, depending on quality, and sometimes those will get banded if I feel they are not up to par with my criteria. Seeing that amount of bulls for sale, some may have to get their knives out. I understand about drought situations, but cut them and let them graze or something. I wouldn't want that many bulls on my place without cows to breed.

Historically, the only reason too register a cow was so that you could sell "registered bulls" out of her. There used to be no market for the females except for people starting out in the reg. cow business. The Angus Pres mentioned that in his bio article talking about the ~70s. Everybody kept their best heifers, sold bulls for a premium, and dumped the rest of their females through the stockyard with the steers or sold them as commercial cows. You imported new genetics into your reg. herd by buying bulls since females could only have one calf a year and thus minimal impact on the program. AI (which narrowed the need for reg. bulls on the seedstock side) and E.T. (which increased the impact a cow could have ten fold) changed this business. Now people are trying too traffic in "donor quality" females and show heifers and there is less focus on the bull business; but a lot of people are still in the commercial bull business and they keep 30-60% of their bulls intact. They sell bulls too spring calving commercial herds in March to May. They sell bulls too fall calving herds in Sept to Dec. This is like the retail biz. If you are overstocked in December you better put it on sale because there are less buyers in the winter and yes some probably should start castrating before they sell bulls for less than a $ thousand; but I got my AL Livestock Market News for the week that ended Nov 14 (I don't know why the new one isn't here yet and I lost the week in between) in front of me and Medium and Large 1 steers ~772 lbs are bringing ~$.7931/lb. That would put a steer at ~$612. A $1000 for a yearling reg. bull is too cheap BUT it IS $388 more Christmas money than a $612 steer is and an intact bull at that size is only bringing $543 (at $.704/lb). Heavier bulls are bringing more (a 1300 lb bull sold for slaughter brings ~$825 at $.55/lb). Either way a $1000 is a short term gain; BUT long term it encourages the buyer to believe that that is a fair price. ME I probably would rather have been there in September, paid $2000 and got the best bull out of the group rather than be sorting through the picked overs left at Christmas time, but everybody looks at it a little differently.

 

[dawnrogerl]

Along with what you guys are talking about a couple of other things that happen is when an auctioneer starts a bid at say, 1,200 goes to 1,500, 1750. then back to $800. and then and only then does the bidding take off. In several other cases I know for a fact that even though the bidding went well, the final bid was still under what the seller wanted for the animal. The auctioneer just makes up a buyers number, so it looks like the animal sold.