Minimum bids

[Brandonm22]

Along with what you guys are talking about a couple of other things that happen is when an auctioneer starts a bid at say, 1,200 goes to 1,500, 1750. then back to $800. and then and only then does the bidding take off. In several other cases I know for a fact that even though the bidding went well, the final bid was still under what the seller wanted for the animal. The auctioneer just makes up a buyers number, so it looks like the animal sold.

I was at a Hereford sale in the spring and was just completely wowwed by a young bull there. Apparently everybody else was too, because he just kept going up and up and up until finally a group over the internet bought him for $28,000. When the sale results came out a month later, he wasn't in the final tally ($28,000 for a 3/4 interest leaves a big hole in a sale). Either the buyer backed out of the deal on something I didn't see when I looked him over prior to the sale, the seller had some sort of minimum or reserve, or the people on the internet never came up with payment (we used to have a regular poster who was known for doing that a time or two in the real world). You do get phantoms (for all three reasons) at sales. No animal is actually sold until the seller accepts payment from the buyer and things can go awry after the gavel falls and the animal walks out of the ring.

 

[Oldtimer]

Along with what you guys are talking about a couple of other things that happen is when an auctioneer starts a bid at say, 1,200 goes to 1,500, 1750. then back to $800. and then and only then does the bidding take off. In several other cases I know for a fact that even though the bidding went well, the final bid was still under what the seller wanted for the animal. The auctioneer just makes up a buyers number, so it looks like the animal sold.

I saw this happening quite often today with the Stevenson Angus Sale-- Goggins (auctioneer) would be at $1500- $1750-$2000- and pretty soon back to $1250 :roll: which was the lowest they would take...Some they passed thru after not getting that...
I've also seen where they sell them to the "ring numbers"-- but it doesn't take long and most catch on.....
Sometimes after the sale where they have passed thru or sold several to ring numbers- you can go to the owner right after the sale and make an offer- and they will take it as they don't want to haul them home...
I've bought both bulls and heifers at sales where they had a minimum bid- and as long as they let me know before I make the trip- I don't care... In fact the last heifers I bought were over the phone the night before the sale- which they told me they had a minimum bid- which I told them to enter for me- and told them the highest I would go- and on which lots....I got my first and third choices...

 

[KMacGinley]

The most entertaining one I ever saw was at a state angus sale and a guy brought two pretty poor Travelor 234D sons. The auctioneer knocked off the first one at $700 and the guy stood up and started yelling and carrying on saying he wouldn't sell him at that price. The second one was just as bad and nobody bid.... The guy blew his stack and yelled out that no one knows a good bull when they see them. Total meltdown. Maybe he should have had a floor.

That was a case of a guy thinking his cattle were better than they were. Sad, but entertaining...

 

[dawnrogerl]

That sounds almost familiar kmacginly, The very first cow that we bought was at a dispersal sale in WV. I had talked to a lot of people in the business before hand and they told me that they thought I would be able to get a good buy there. Extremely good pedigrees. Well we drove to WV from NC stayed over night as did people from IL, WI, Oh, In, etc. and the prices started out really cheep. We purchased a good 5 year old cow, with a heifer calf and bred back for $1,000. WOW!!!! The sale was for something like over 200 head. About half way through the sale the seller stopped the sale, madder then **##. Now for the punch line. When we sent the truck to pick up the cow and calf, the seller said that we were mistaking. There was no calf. We got her home and had her checked and she was not preg. On top of that after several tries she would not take AI and we turned her in with the bull. Lucky she is now Preg. and also worth the $1,000. we paid for her. Every sale that we went to for months after that one, it was the talk of the industry. The last I knew he still has the cattle.

 

[Elder Statesman]

I think minimum bid is OK, but the way prices are now for those selling feeders. $1500 will keep a lot of cow/calf folks away. Better to get people at the auction. I think by Spring there will be lots of good bulls for lots less then $1500.

It is already happening. I got my AL Farmers and Consumers Bulletin yesterday. I am quoting here without the names, phones, and addresses:

"10 Charolais Bulls 20 - 30 mos ready for hard work $1200 - 1500 (Covington) "(County)

"Reg Red Angus bulls 18 mos - 4 yo good growth calving ease bulls, good EPDs $1200/up (Limestone)"

"Reg Brangus bulls $1500 (Clay)"

"12 reg Angus bulls $1250/up, gentle, homegrown, hand fed; we have several exce heifer bulls (Morgan)"

"reg Beefmaster heifer's, bulls 9 mos/up $700/up (Randolph)"

"Simmental, Angus/Simmental bulls reg. polled black, red, most AI'd $1500/up (St Clair)" (I actually know that guy and he does have good stuff).

"Charolais bull's reg polled, King Grazer, Magnum 93 bloodlines, all ages $1200/up (Etowah)"

"Reg. Limousin bulls red & black, double polled, gentle, LBW, 10-34 mos $1400-1650. (Bullock)"

"4 black Simmental and Simmental-Angus bulls $1500; young bulls $800 (Chilton)"

"Polled Hereford bulls, gentle, fertile, easy keeping, passed BSEs, satisfaction guaranteed $1250/up (St Clair)" (Again I know him, have owned one of his bulls in the past, and he has good stuff with a bunch of years of breeding behind them. He's the vet that writes the Progressive Farmer column).

"reg. Beefmaster bulls polled yearling to breeding age $900/up (Randolph)"

"Reg. Black Angus bull yearling, sire is Mytty in Focus bred at Barry College, calve ease pasture raised $900 (Cherokee)"

"Fullblood Angus bulls 12-14 mos, top bloodlines, reasonable priced $900-1000 (Fayette)" (no name and address but I am pretty sure I know where this guy's herd is)

"Cow Creek sired Brangus bulls 10-17 mos $875-975 (Marion)"

"Reg. Black Angus bulls 10-13 mos $1000/up gentle with quality bloodlines (Marion)"

"5 reg Black Angus bulls 10-16 mos $850-900 LBW genetics, exce bloodlines, Bon View New Design (Barbour)"

And I COULD go on. I realize Alabama is a BAD example right now. 2006 and 2007 were back to back drought years so nobody has any hay held over from last year. This fall was real dry, then frost hit hard in most of the state in October so our normally reliable winter annuals really didn't provide much fall grazing and nobody was really able too stockpile fescue either. Everybody is feeding hay at least a month earlier than they would normally (and we haven't had a "normal" year since 2005). As spotty as the rain was, some people put up whole barns full of hay and some folks in some counties got only one good cutting and our feeder prices were all over the place last month from good too flat out bad from week to week barn to barn class to class. I can't see the pattern.

Folks don't want to be carrying bulls and are trying too dump them so they don't have to feed them. The dude that holds bulls too April may find they are scarce around here and he can charge $2500/up, but that is a heck of a gamble right now.

It baffles me why people in a drought area would be keeping back a bunch of bulls. Who do they think is going to buy them? Of course, when I see someone advertising some 9 month old bulls, I'm have to wonder if they didn't want to go to the trouble of cutting them and are trying to peddle what should be steers as breeding stock. I would have to guess that the majority of these bulls have no ultra-sound data and many probably haven't had actual weaning or yearling weights taken. Having bulls for sale doesn't mean they are selling breeding stock. I'm sorry to be an @$$ about this but there are too many people trying to sell bulls that don't give crap about their customers and whether their product will benefit the industry. They just flood the market with a bunch of cheap bulls that should have been cut. And it has nothing to do with the size of the operation either. I know several guys who sell 5-15 bulls a year who go to the trouble of collecting carcass data and weights, and follow their customers cattle thru the feedlots. They sell quality animals and get paid a decent price from cattlemen who know their business.

As I said before, a sharp knife and understanding supply and demand are great tools in the seedstock business. If you can sell 12 bulls a year at $1500 or higher, just keep back 10 bulls if you plan on staying in the business very long. You can't use the Henry Ford mentallity of selling a higher volume for a lower price. The profit margin is just too narrow in the cattle business to make that work, especially with today's high input costs.

Sorry for the sermon, I will crawl off the soap box and go back to my cave.

 

[bigbull338]

man those beefmaster heifer an bull calves seem to cheap to me.if i sale heifers i want tween $800 an $1000 depending on the breeding.an i strict cull my bull calves.i have 1 reg bull that i want a $1000 for.so no i dont keep every bull as a herd bull.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

When you sell a registered bull, you have to take into account all your expenses in raising the bull, herd health, vet exp, AND you (as a breeder) have to guarantee the bull.
I belive in setting a minimum bid. If that minimum is more than what you are willing to pay, than by all means, don't waste your gas & time to go.
I'm not saying that all sales should have a minimum bid. Just saying that if the sale wants to set one, it's ok with me. We set a minimum bid for the bulls on the NY bull test at $1000. The producers probably have $1200 tied up in the bulls. We can ship the ones that didn't sell for beef & get close to the $1000 price. Why guarantee a bull for less???? than what he's worth.
I definately don't believe in striking off an animal to a fake buyer. Much rather they said "no sale", although most sales won't allow that.
This subject is always a "hot topic" whenever it comes up - in person, at meetings, on this forum, etc.
A lot of good comments have been made.

 

[backhoeboogie]

We can ship the ones that didn't sell for beef & get close to the $1000 price. Why guarantee a bull for less????

Well then, your $1,000 price is what I am familiar with as a "floor price". What I have known as a floor price was a guaranteed price a third party was willing to pay, before the auction.

If you can sell a 2450 lb brangus bull as a packer bull for 68 cents a pound, why sell it for $1500 and lose? Packers prices were up all summer.

 

[Angus Cowman]

I agree Brandon
I hear guys saying well I would really like to have that bull but he is too much money say $2500 I am gonna look around well they do and then they run out of time and buy a bull for $1500 and they lose 20-50lbs per calf at weaning so I guess that $2500 bull wasn't to high after all

25 calves at 550lbs X $1.00pr lb =$550
25 calves at 600lbs x$.97pr lb =$582

that is a loss of $800 the first yr if they get 4yrs out of him that is $3200 the $2500 bull would have paid for the $1000 more on purchase and they would have pocketed enough to pay for another good bull when they salvaged him

WHY CAN'T PEOPLE SEE THIS OR GET IT THRU THEIR THICK SCULLS

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Angus Cattleman those people have never gave $2500.00 for a good bull that will produce those extra pounds so they never them.

 

[angus9259]

Angus Cattleman those people have never gave $2500.00 for a good bull that will produce those extra pounds so they never them.

I agree! There isn't a single good angus cattleman in all 20,000 of them! I don't trust guys with Ford trucks or long hair either. :lol:

 

[dun]

I don't trust guys with Ford trucks or long hair either. :lol:

You referring to cfpinz?

 

[cfpinz]

I don't trust guys with Ford trucks or long hair either. :lol:

You referring to cfpinz?

Pertaining to my choice of vehicles or excessive backhair?

 

[dun]

I don't trust guys with Ford trucks or long hair either. :lol:

You referring to cfpinz?

Pertaining to my choice of vehicles or excessive backhair?

YES

 

[angus9259]

I don't trust guys with Ford trucks or long hair either. :lol:

You referring to cfpinz?

Pertaining to my choice of vehicles or excessive backhair?

Depends . . . what color is the backhair?

 

[cfpinz]

Pertaining to my choice of vehicles or excessive backhair?

Depends . . . what color is the backhair?

I'm mostly brunette, but I like to highlight a strip down the middle, kind of like a skunk. There's probably some green left from Halloween, too.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

Hmm - maybe I should take offense to that - I drive a Ford Truck F450 and I have long hair!!!

 

[angus9259]

Hmm - maybe I should take offense to that - I drive a Ford Truck F450 and I have long hair!!!

AND you have BLACK cows!! Wow . . . you are BAAAADDD shape! That's three strikes.

 

[Jeanne - Simme Valley]

I still have RED cows & are still breeding to red bulls - does that earn me some brownie points???

 

[dun]

I still have RED cows & are still breeding to red bulls - does that earn me some brownie points???

Only if you cut your hair