Lower quality cattle

[Brandonm22]

If a calf is born in Alabama goes to a stockyard in Mississippi where he is bought by a backgrounder in Arkansas and then goes into a stocker program in Oklahoma, then to a feedlot in Texas where he is finally processed does the government consider him a Texas, Oklahoma, Arkansas, Mississippi, or Alabama calf and since most of us don't have individual animal ID or premises ID how would the government know in the first place???

 

[Jogeephus]

Precisely my point Brandonm22.

What makes you think that this report is not repesentative of the quality of cattle in that given region?

Simple. Because the sample is not taken solely from the state's herd so it is biased. Just because the calf is butchered in the state doesn't mean it was born and raised there. Secondly, what about imports? Is it just coincidence that three of the states you are accusing of raising poor quality cattle are also the states that have the 10 main ports of entry for Mexican cattle totalling around a million per year. I guess these cattle just walk on into Walmart and hop in the freezer and don't affect these report numbers. So who gets to claim the Mexican cattle.

 

[backhoeboogie]

I think the big question is why did our national average of prime drop in half after 1980?

:banana:

 

[angus9259]

Brandomn this man is not my cruising buddy, he is an arrogant, insulting man who provided unbiased proof to back up his claims. It was the lack of prime beef that he continued to jam down my throat.

Backhoe

This man has not sold me on anything the overwhelming proof has, there is nothing I would like more than to prove this man wrong. However given the facts he has provided, and the fact I have none to refute his, I have chosen to no longer deny that we produce lower quality beef and to start trying to understand why.

Hold your ground.

 

[novatech]

The simple truth is that the average cattleman don't give 2 hoots about the quality of the beef they produce. More attention is being given to the hair color than what is under it. Less than 10% of pure Angus will grade for CAB.
The vast majority of cattle are sold by the pound live weight. The way the majority of cattle are graded is by phenotype and hair color until it is hanging on the rail. The cattle in the states mentioned are raised for volume of beef. The cattle are typically larger than the cattle from the more northern states.
It is of no concern to me who produces the better beef. Over all the quality of beef in the US has declined. This will continue as long as the purchasing methods continue as they are. Producers will not produce any better quality unless they get paid for it. This will not happen in an auction barn until science produces the technology to test for it at sale time.

 

[lawdawg1]

1. Post a copy of this report.
2. Come down here and get a tour of major stockyards and see for yourself.
3. Go to LSUAGCENTER.com and read their reports.

 

[alacattleman]

Brandomn this man is not my cruising buddy, he is an arrogant, insulting man who provided unbiased proof to back up his claims. It was the lack of prime beef that he continued to jam down my throat.

Backhoe

This man has not sold me on anything the overwhelming proof has, there is nothing I would like more than to prove this man wrong. However given the facts he has provided, and the fact I have none to refute his, I have chosen to no longer deny that we produce lower quality beef and to start trying to understand why.

sometimes it take those type too get a point across... you can hate em but deep down you know their right..... the biggest problem with southern cattle can be summed up in one word,, here it goes.........management

 

[Brandonm22]

Producers will not produce any better quality unless they get paid for it. This will not happen in an auction barn until science produces the technology to test for it at sale time.

Nope, the best steakhouses in the world will pay a 5-15% premium for the ribeyes, porter houses, and sirloins from those 2-10% of carcasses and the rest of the cattle will go into the rest of the supply chain. Most of us are eating Select, Low Choice, and cow steaks now anyway.

 

[TexasBred]

Those states mentioned all contain a huge number of very small cattle folks...people with 4-5-10 cows. All they care about it having a calf, getting it up to weaning, sell it and pocket the money. Where it goes from there anybody can guess. Many use worthless bulls, also have very poor cattle so you get worthless calves.....the feedlots buy them discounted, do what they can with them and it goes from there. For that same reason you can go to just about any sale barn in this state and calves are always sold as singles... not a big enough operator around to put together nice big groups....takes forever to sell a thousand head.

 

[Jogeephus]

The simple truth is that the average cattleman don't give 2 hoots about the quality of the beef they produce. More attention is being given to the hair color than what is under it. Less than 10% of pure Angus will grade for CAB.
The vast majority of cattle are sold by the pound live weight. The way the majority of cattle are graded is by phenotype and hair color until it is hanging on the rail. The cattle in the states mentioned are raised for volume of beef. The cattle are typically larger than the cattle from the more northern states.
It is of no concern to me who produces the better beef. Over all the quality of beef in the US has declined. This will continue as long as the purchasing methods continue as they are. Producers will not produce any better quality unless they get paid for it. This will not happen in an auction barn until science produces the technology to test for it at sale time.

Here's some hard data to go along with this thread and confirm what you say. Of course it deals mainly with Ga but I don't see why it wouldn't apply elsewhere.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile ... RDC5070159

But if anyone is truly concerned about upgrading their herd to please these hardened buyers I'll be happy to sell you some straws from my Imbalancers. $138.23/straw may sound pricey but with a guarantee of up to 50% prime in your herd I think its a good deal.

 

[angus9259]

It is of no concern to me who produces the better beef.

Interesting.

 

[cmf1]

Well Jo,
From that report it appears that the industry has widely accepted that Southern beef is of low quality.
I am a little surprised I guess, but when I think about it and the few times I've been to the sale barn maybe I'm not too surprised.
Probably just don't want to hear it more than anything else.
Not really interested in taking part in it either.
Meaning that I could be convinced that cattle that runs through the salebarn could be of lower quality cut percentages in region 6 than other regions, but to say that geography or Brahman blood is the reason, well... I ain't going for it.
As in Ga. according to the article, lot of small timers out here raising good quality beef that never hits the grid.
I guess what they don't know won't hurt'em.

 

[greengrasscattle]

Brandomn this man is not my cruising buddy, he is an arrogant, insulting man who provided unbiased proof to back up his claims. It was the lack of prime beef that he continued to jam down my throat.

Backhoe

This man has not sold me on anything the overwhelming proof has, there is nothing I would like more than to prove this man wrong. However given the facts he has provided, and the fact I have none to refute his, I have chosen to no longer deny that we produce lower quality beef and to start trying to understand why.

sometimes it take those type too get a point across... you can hate em but deep down you know their right..... the biggest problem with southern cattle can be summed up in one word,, here it goes.........management

You know after you mentioned it, this man has caused me to step back and look at things in a different light. Still an arrogant, insulting jerk though.

Thinking more about it that way, there is one maybe two of those insulting, arrogant, jerks on this board, who have made me look at things differently as well. It is hard to argue when they have unbiased facts, and I don't. Still can dislike them though. Dislike them and learn. Had a teacher at school that way as well.

 

[novatech]

The simple truth is that the average cattleman don't give 2 hoots about the quality of the beef they produce. More attention is being given to the hair color than what is under it. Less than 10% of pure Angus will grade for CAB.
The vast majority of cattle are sold by the pound live weight. The way the majority of cattle are graded is by phenotype and hair color until it is hanging on the rail. The cattle in the states mentioned are raised for volume of beef. The cattle are typically larger than the cattle from the more northern states.
It is of no concern to me who produces the better beef. Over all the quality of beef in the US has declined. This will continue as long as the purchasing methods continue as they are. Producers will not produce any better quality unless they get paid for it. This will not happen in an auction barn until science produces the technology to test for it at sale time.

Here's some hard data to go along with this thread and confirm what you say. Of course it deals mainly with Ga but I don't see why it wouldn't apply elsewhere.

http://www.ams.usda.gov/AMSv1.0/getfile ... RDC5070159

Thanks for the article. I went through it not having the time to read in its entirety. I will later.
I don't think it will ever happen, due to the nature of ag. people, but if they would ever get together and sell collectively I believe they could profit on their efforts. I believe that a lot of cattle people fall short when it comes to marketing.
Not so long ago there was a lot of talk about improvement in quality throughout the Brahman industry. Prices for fertilizer, feed, etc. shot up and the talk switched to efficiency. More than likely it is because it is easier to market.
Processors have learned to deal with the lower quality using electro chock and 14 to 21 day hanging time.

 

[Caustic Burno]

Those states mentioned all contain a huge number of very small cattle folks...people with 4-5-10 cows. All they care about it having a calf, getting it up to weaning, sell it and pocket the money. Where it goes from there anybody can guess. Many use worthless bulls, also have very poor cattle so you get worthless calves.....the feedlots buy them discounted, do what they can with them and it goes from there. For that same reason you can go to just about any sale barn in this state and calves are always sold as singles... not a big enough operator around to put together nice big groups....takes forever to sell a thousand head.

The majority of cattle producers in this state have an average herd of 25 cattle from a TAMU article I read.
If I remember correctly less than 5% have over a hundred head.

 

[TexasBred]

Brandomn this man is not my cruising buddy, he is an arrogant, insulting man who provided unbiased proof to back up his claims. It was the lack of prime beef that he continued to jam down my throat.

Backhoe

This man has not sold me on anything the overwhelming proof has, there is nothing I would like more than to prove this man wrong. However given the facts he has provided, and the fact I have none to refute his, I have chosen to no longer deny that we produce lower quality beef and to start trying to understand why.

sometimes it take those type too get a point across... you can hate em but deep down you know their right..... the biggest problem with southern cattle can be summed up in one word,, here it goes.........management

You know after you mentioned it, this man has caused me to step back and look at things in a different light. Still an arrogant, insulting jerk though.

Thinking more about it that way, there is one maybe two of those insulting, arrogant, jerks on this board, who have made me look at things differently as well. It is hard to argue when they have unbiased facts, and I don't. Still can dislike them though. Dislike them and learn. Had a teacher at school that way as well.

We all probably did...but we were there to learn and their job was to teach...not buddy up to us. Best Wishes.

 

[alacattleman]

Brandomn this man is not my cruising buddy, he is an arrogant, insulting man who provided unbiased proof to back up his claims. It was the lack of prime beef that he continued to jam down my throat.

Backhoe

This man has not sold me on anything the overwhelming proof has, there is nothing I would like more than to prove this man wrong. However given the facts he has provided, and the fact I have none to refute his, I have chosen to no longer deny that we produce lower quality beef and to start trying to understand why.

sometimes it take those type too get a point across... you can hate em but deep down you know their right..... the biggest problem with southern cattle can be summed up in one word,, here it goes.........management

You know after you mentioned it, this man has caused me to step back and look at things in a different light. Still an arrogant, insulting jerk though.

Thinking more about it that way, there is one maybe two of those insulting, arrogant, jerks on this board, who have made me look at things differently as well. It is hard to argue when they have unbiased facts, and I don't. Still can dislike them though. Dislike them and learn. Had a teacher at school that way as well.

next time you see him hollar TAPEWORM see do you get a responce :cowboy:

 

[Workinonit Farm]

next time you see him hollar TAPEWORM see do you get a responce :cowboy:

Holy CRAP!!! :shock: :lol: :lol2: :lol: :lol2: I forgot all about that guy! Been a long time since he was around. :lol:

Katherine

 

[JRGidaho`]

Hi guys and gals,

I've been away from the forum for a few weeks and this was the first thread I read after getting back. The reason I have always been told southeastern cattle are lower quality (on average) was never mentioned in these discussions. Here is what I have been told by those supposedly in the know...

The average cow herd size in southern states is about 17 head. Becasue of the small herds they buy very cheap bulls. The result is low quality calves. I don't know how much accuracy there is in that assessment but it has a certain ring of truth to it. The ranch we're on (idaho) typically run 35-40 cows per bull, buy in lots of at least 5 bulls at a time, sometimes 15 to 20. When you buy bulls that way, you can buy quality bulls at a much more affordable price compared to someone with just a few cows. If you just have a dozen cows, it is hard to justify spending more than $1200 on a bull.

We have custom grazed southern cattle before and been very satisified with their quality and performance but they came from single source herds runing several hundred head of cattle.

JR

Just what I've heard....

 

[Jim62]

Being one of those who have only 20 -25 head as a rule, that reasoning makes more sense than anything I've seen so far. With a herd that size, about all you can hope for would be a break even year now and then. The only "real" income is the property tax savings--ag exemption as opposed to real estate value.