Lower Input Production Information

[anewcomer]

This thread reminds me of an old Henry Ford quote," If you think you can, or think you can't, you're probably right."

 

[ClinchValley86]

Clinch, have you considered using Batt-Latches to cut down on the labor requirement?

I have considered it, yes. To be honest with you, I really enjoy being out there with them. And with how I do it, it doesn't take up too much time. Two days a week it may take an hour, the other days it'll only take 30 minutes total. That's two moves a day.

I feel the benefits are well worth the time.

Have you used them?

 

[Otha]

I would like to hear from someone that uses batt latches too. How they are set up. The video I saw of them they released and left a lot of wire laying on the ground. That seems problematic. Hot or not the calves would be all tangled up in the wire. I lost a 300 lb calf one time that tore a hot wire down and got wrapped up in it and presumably died of stress before I found it.

 

[dave_shelby]

Do the folks using Batt latches use them for front fence and keep a back fence with water access? Seems to me that between water and polywire fence, the latter is the easier part.

I've been having calving difficulties this year, had to pull two calves, had another that was a recalcitrant nurser. Its also the time of year where we are supposed transition to tip grazing taking herd quickly through paddocks. Now its hard enough with newborns and protective mammas. But calving issues make that super difficult, eating up time making lanes to move cattle and keeping cows in a barnyard. How are fellow graziers handling this?

And while I'm thinking about this time of year why do people pack so much into April? Got two weddings, a few community service events, two Saturday church meetings and an auction tomorrow. And I already missed a great regenerative grazing class with Dr Allen Williams.

 

[RDFF]

I don't use Batt-Latches myself, but my cousin's son does. You should install it so that ONLY the spring gate lays on the ground, and that should be isolated from the fence so it will only be powered up when it's closed, so it doesn't ground the fence when it opens up. Yes, THAT will be laying there on the ground, and would have the potential for tangling with an animal... And yes, you'd have to have water access on the back (original paddock), and then they would just go back to the water... Batt-Latch is on the leading edge fence.

I move mine 2x/day in springtime... during calving... and I often will just move the front 'lead wire' when I have a cow that has calved in the "original paddock"... she'll want to stay there with her calf. The rest will always prefer the new break anyway, and won't spend hardly anytime at all in the "left behind" break. By the time you are ready to move again, new momma will have brought her calf up into the newest break, and you just accomodate it that way. I wouldn't worry about this, even if I had to allow one to lag behind a day or two.

Can't help you at all with advice on how to get people to not plug up the calendar in April!

 

[RDFF]

CV I'm struggling to understand your grazing program with two watering points. I'd like to see diagrams and pictures and yes what you consider beat up pasture. I like to see how different programs work for different environments and constraints.

Obviously I'm not CV... but you can see a diagram of how my operation is set up using limited watering stations with an explanation posted on the first page of this thread (toward the bottom of the page). This design allows me to have as much or as little area for grazing as I need, anywhere on the farm... as long as I use one (any) strip to get them back to a waterer. They can have an "access lane" on either end of the strips to get them onto a strip to allow them back to the desired watering station. I don't mind making them walk a bit for water... God gave cows legs... let 'em use 'em!

 

[ClinchValley86]

@dave_shelby

The ground in foreground is pretty beat up, especially on the left side and on the backside of the hill. My waterer is behind where in standing in this photo. Im trying to find a NRCS satellite photo for you.

 

[ClinchValley86]

@dave_shelby

this is an nrcs map. There are three blue "%" symbols, these are waterers. The one in top of picture puts out very little water due to elevation. Therefore the middle water point takes care of most of the farm.

The red lines are nothing. NRCs wanted to fence them off, and do lots of stuff. I opted out of their plans. I am going to put some tire tank water points on a couple of their red lines. And dog a pond in the back side of the farm. Which would be the top of the photo. About 1200 feet in elevation between submerged well pump and highest water point. Too much pressure loss.

I make lanes with temporary wire and pigtail posts. To and from water. Think I'm figuring out how permanent fence could go in some areas and not get in the way. It's very much been trial and error.

Highly doubt this post explains your questions.

 

[RDFF]

I make lanes with temporary wire and pigtail posts.

CV, I know you've already stated you liked the suggestion of the 3/8" fiberglass rods instead of the pigtails... Just reposting in reply to your comment above for anybody coming late to this post. Much easier to carry and store, with no tangling. Lighter in weight and cheaper too. Wrap the poly once around and go, with any amount of tension on it at all, it'll stay right in place, but you CAN still slide it up and down on them, like to have the poly wire held down close to the ground so you can drive over with a tractor or pickup/SxS, for example. I put the poly wire out first, and then install the rods at about every 16 - 20 paces on the return trip back to the wheeler. I've got probably 15 or so of these rods stuck through my racks on the pic below, plus maybe another 15 in that red tube on the front rack, my "rod quiver"... I sling that over my shoulder when I need to string out a long line... can make one out of a piece of 2" PVC with a cap on one end. They also are handy then for using as a cattle handling stick... or to lift a hot wire to slip the 4-wheeler under. I actually have a shorter piece of one handy on here just for that... I can pull it out more quickly when I need it. Can quickly use one to hold a swinging gate open if necessary too. Besides my 4-wheeler, my SxS and pickup also would rarely be found without several of these...

 

[RDFF]

@dave_shelby

this is an nrcs map. There are three blue "%" symbols, these are waterers. The one in top of picture puts out very little water due to elevation. Therefore the middle water point takes care of most of the farm.

The red lines are nothing. NRCs wanted to fence them off, and do lots of stuff. I opted out of their plans. I am going to put some tire tank water points on a couple of their red lines. And dog a pond in the back side of the farm. Which would be the top of the photo. About 1200 feet in elevation between submerged well pump and highest water point. Too much pressure loss.

Highly doubt this post explains your questions.

CV, how many acres are you working with there in the pic? It doesn't APPEAR to be much TOTAL ground for the number of animals that I count in the other images... curious what your animal density per total grazable acres is... it would APPEAR to be pretty high. Wondering how you make that work? Feeding when the pasture runs short and needs rest period (I see the swaths rolled out in the background on green pasture)? Have some other pasture ground you can move them to? The grass in the pics where they're grazing looks to be in great shape!

What's the full width of your property (property line fence to property line fence), and what's the length from the front boundary fence at the bottom to the far end of the woods on the upper end of the image? I see that you've got plenty of "slope" to deal with.... Any "wet spots" to have to work around?

 

[50/50Farms]

Gosh, I'm going to sound like such a dumbazz, but how well does this temporary fencing stuff work for small animals? My mom has a second house on a small parcel she rents to my sister in law, and they're basically reliant on the neighbor to mow the place. I've been halfway asked about putting a few critters out there, and I've got a few dudes who give me a good price on sheep, but I don't think a "hard" fence is an option over there. Can sheep be reliably, safely kept in with these fencing setups y'all use?

 

[Allenw]

Grandson is using electric poultry netting with sheep, he says its less trouble than the sheep and goat type. You would want to train them to it first and to sort out any trouble makers.

 

[RDFF]

Gosh, I'm going to sound like such a dumbazz, but how well does this temporary fencing stuff work for small animals? My mom has a second house on a small parcel she rents to my sister in law, and they're basically reliant on the neighbor to mow the place. I've been halfway asked about putting a few critters out there, and I've got a few dudes who give me a good price on sheep, but I don't think a "hard" fence is an option over there. Can sheep be reliably, safely kept in with these fencing setups y'all use?

NO, simple answer! If you've got 100 sheep in a pasture, and one gets out, how many do you have left in the pasture? (Right answer: 0) With goats, if it'll hold water, it'll hold goats..............

You'd have to use the electrified netting to be reasonably confident they'll stay in... reasonably being the key word there. We had 7 wire HT electric fence with alternating hot/ground around our sheep pasture... when first sheared, the electric worked pretty well. Once they got some reasonable wool growing back, they became pretty much immune to the shock... and then once they start working through the fence, the analogy above pretty much plays out.

 

[shaz]

I've studied Elaine Ingham and don't even have a cursory understanding of the biology. My Readers Digest theme would say that our pastures could benefit from being more fungally dominant than bacterial but I really don't have the credentials to say one way or the other

 

[Ebenezer]

NO, simple answer! If you've got 100 sheep in a pasture, and one gets out, how many do you have left in the pasture? (Right answer: 0) With goats, if it'll hold water, it'll hold goats..............

You'd have to use the electrified netting to be reasonably confident they'll stay in... reasonably being the key word there. We had 7 wire HT electric fence with alternating hot/ground around our sheep pasture... when first sheared, the electric worked pretty well. Once they got some reasonable wool growing back, they became pretty much immune to the shock... and then once they start working through the fence, the analogy above pretty much plays out.

Hair sheep are not that bad.

 

[50/50Farms]

I'm probably just going to scrap the idea if I can't be reasonably sure I can keep them in. I can get a hold of some of that polywire stuff if that helps. I've just never really dealt much with the temporary fencing stuff, it was kind of just me trying to figure out if I could oblige. My niece and nephew over there love animals, so I was pondering it extra heavy when it was suggested, I try to do everything I can for those kids since their situation is complicated. The niece was asking me about building up a chicken tractor and getting her some layers, I think I'll just do that.

 

[RDFF]

I'm probably just going to scrap the idea if I can't be reasonably sure I can keep them in. I can get a hold of some of that polywire stuff if that helps. I've just never really dealt much with the temporary fencing stuff, it was kind of just me trying to figure out if I could oblige. My niece and nephew over there love animals, so I was pondering it extra heavy when it was suggested, I try to do everything I can for those kids since their situation is complicated. The niece was asking me about building up a chicken tractor and getting her some layers, I think I'll just do that.

Here's what I built for a "chicken tractor". I still want to add a few roll out nests (mount on the wall, so the eggs will roll to the outside... don't have to go inside to gather them, and the eggs wouldn't get as dirty), but other than that, I really like it. Used 1/4" screen over it and then ended up putting a hog panel liner around the outside to keep our German Shepherd from tearing that up to have a snack! I like that I can walk in on either end (PVC door frames), and that it's full stand up height inside. PVC roosts for the chickens too (notice a cross pipe at the center frame, and then there's a "roost" running lengthwise on each side too). The 5 gallon bucket is for their water, has nipples in the bottom..., but I like the ones that go through the side with a tiny little "pan" underneath the nipple better... either way, nipples are MUCH cleaner than any pan type waterer. I haven't moved it yet this spring, so it's still sitting where it was all winter... that's why there's no grass inside it right now. Surprisingly, this still is heavy enough that I move it with the 4 wheeler... just throw a tow strap over those 90 degree "ski ends" and drag it wherever I need to. Biggest issue there is the chickens not moving ahead... so they can get their feet underneath the pipe. I wonder if installing a wire out ahead of the pipe to prompt them to move without trapping their feet might not prevent that???

4" PVC for the base, 2" PVC for the rest of the frame. This size works good for up to maybe 8-10 hens if you're keeping them in all the time (the dog again....), could have significantly more in it if it was just for night keeping, and they run loose during the day. Believe it or not, I keep them in this, right in this spot (so there's a windbreak there behind them), all winter too, just like this... and I don't worry about water for them in winter... they eat snow. If they've packed it down too much, I might throw a shovel full in there for them, but generally here, we get enough regular snows that I don't have to be concerned about it. Got tired of trying to figure out and pay for "heated water" for them... and it's hard to justify. Probably would be better off butchering them and replacing in the spring with layers again, if you needed to do heated water. When I built it, I had a general idea of about how big I wanted it, but I tried to maximize the use of the piping (10' lengths).

For the hinges for the doors, I just didn't glue those joints... the PVC just swings in that joint then. Used zipties to attach the screen.

 

[50/50Farms]

Here's what I built for a "chicken tractor". I still want to add a few roll out nests (mount on the wall, so the eggs will roll to the outside... don't have to go inside to gather them), but other than that, really I like it. Used 1/4" screen over it and then ended up putting a hog panel liner around the outside to keep our German Shepherd from tearing that up to have a snack! I like that I can walk in on either end (PVC door frames), and that it's full stand up height inside. PVC roosts for the chickens too (notice a cross pipe at the center frame, and then there's a "roost" running lengthwise on each side too). The 5 gallon bucket is for their water, has nipples in the bottom..., but I like the ones that go through the side with a tiny little "pan" underneath the nipple better... either way, nipples are MUCH cleaner than any pan type waterer. I haven't moved it yet this spring, so it's still sitting where it was all winter... that's why there's no grass inside it right now. Surprisingly, this still is heavy enough that I move it with the 4 wheeler... just throw a tow strap over those 90 degree "ski ends" and drag it wherever I need to. Biggest issue there is the chickens not moving ahead... so they can get their feet underneath the pipe. I wonder if installing a wire out ahead of the pipe to prompt them to move without trapping their feet might not prevent that???

4" PVC for the base, 2" PVC for the rest of the frame. This size works good for up to maybe 8-10 hens if you're keeping them in all the time (the dog again....), could have significantly more in it if it was just for night keeping, and they run loose during the day. Believe it or not, I keep them in this, right in this spot (so there's a windbreak there behind them), all winter too, just like this... and I don't worry about water for them in winter... they eat snow. If they've packed it down too much, I might throw a shovel full in there for them, but generally here, we get enough regular snows that I don't have to be concerned about it. Got tired of trying to figure out and pay for "heated water" for them... and it's hard to justify. Probably would be better off butchering them and replacing in the spring with layers again, if you needed to do heated water. When I built it, I had a general idea of about how big I wanted it, but I tried to maximize the use of the piping (10' lengths).

View attachment 29043

We had one over there before and sold it, it was a main box chamber area with an upper deck for laying boxes with a back door for egg retrieval and a side door for access, it had wheels on the front and handles on the back for moving it like a wheelbarrow, it was a bit much to move on hills but overall easy enough, capacity of 6-8.

 

[chaded]

Obviously I'm not CV... but you can see a diagram of how my operation is set up using limited watering stations with an explanation posted on the first page of this thread (toward the bottom of the page). This design allows me to have as much or as little area for grazing as I need, anywhere on the farm... as long as I use one (any) strip to get them back to a waterer. They can have an "access lane" on either end of the strips to get them onto a strip to allow them back to the desired watering station. I don't mind making them walk a bit for water... God gave cows legs... let 'em use 'em!

How far are we talking about making them walk back via lane? The problem with lanes, especially far ones, is that a lot of nutrients are dropped and wasted in them in their travel back and forth. Sometimes though it's about the only way to do it.

 

[Ebenezer]

Here's what I built for a "chicken tractor". I still want to add a few roll out nests (mount on the wall, so the eggs will roll to the outside... don't have to go inside to gather them, and the eggs wouldn't get as dirty), but other than that, I really like it. Used 1/4" screen over it and then ended up putting a hog panel liner around the outside to keep our German Shepherd from tearing that up to have a snack! I like that I can walk in on either end (PVC door frames), and that it's full stand up height inside. PVC roosts for the chickens too (notice a cross pipe at the center frame, and then there's a "roost" running lengthwise on each side too). The 5 gallon bucket is for their water, has nipples in the bottom..., but I like the ones that go through the side with a tiny little "pan" underneath the nipple better... either way, nipples are MUCH cleaner than any pan type waterer. I haven't moved it yet this spring, so it's still sitting where it was all winter... that's why there's no grass inside it right now. Surprisingly, this still is heavy enough that I move it with the 4 wheeler... just throw a tow strap over those 90 degree "ski ends" and drag it wherever I need to. Biggest issue there is the chickens not moving ahead... so they can get their feet underneath the pipe. I wonder if installing a wire out ahead of the pipe to prompt them to move without trapping their feet might not prevent that???

4" PVC for the base, 2" PVC for the rest of the frame. This size works good for up to maybe 8-10 hens if you're keeping them in all the time (the dog again....), could have significantly more in it if it was just for night keeping, and they run loose during the day. Believe it or not, I keep them in this, right in this spot (so there's a windbreak there behind them), all winter too, just like this... and I don't worry about water for them in winter... they eat snow. If they've packed it down too much, I might throw a shovel full in there for them, but generally here, we get enough regular snows that I don't have to be concerned about it. Got tired of trying to figure out and pay for "heated water" for them... and it's hard to justify. Probably would be better off butchering them and replacing in the spring with layers again, if you needed to do heated water. When I built it, I had a general idea of about how big I wanted it, but I tried to maximize the use of the piping (10' lengths).

For the hinges for the doors, I just didn't glue those joints... the PVC just swings in that joint then. Used zipties to attach the screen.

View attachment 29043

I'd cringe to know the cost of that whole thing.