Lost one this Morning

[J Hoy]

Yeah, I know of a kid with a pretty severe overbite.

How old?

 

[Redgully]

In 1996, with the release of Roundup Ready seeds and millions of new pounds of Glyphosate Based Herbicides used each year, the newborns had even higher prevalence of birth defects. What was called Weak Calf Syndrome killed hundreds of calves here in our county beginning in 1995 and it got worse each year for several years. Another pesticide that began being used in millions of pounds instead of thousands of pounds in spring of 1994 was fungicides, especially Chlorothalonil, on potato blight in the states upwind.

That is what I'm talking about, talking about a study on imidacloprid and then randomly throw in these two chemicals without scientific study. This is what i keep getting when people try telling me chemicals are killing everything. And then people who get influenced by you spread the word that glysophate causes autism because that is what jumped out at them. Its just chinese whispers that turns into misinformation and is dangerous stuff. I can tell you from my experience organic produce is the only thing i know that has killed a lot of people. Raw milk by people who don't understand what they are doing, organic fertiliser killing people with listeria and e coli contamination.

 

[Travlr]

Well then i must be super lucky here my cattle have all their limbs and ears. You say there is a study and mix in your own observations and generalisation. Im not a scientist but quickly looking through the study one thing jumped out at me, they used their drinking water to administer the Imidacloprid and found the higher the dose the less they drank. Obviously they could taste it and didn't like it. So to me they would not have been hydrated properly which would have caused more problems than anything else in my opinion plus being unable to flush out toxins.

I'm not saying it is out the question chemicals are causing problems but we've got lunatics running around here preaching the end of the world and telling me this and that is going to happen yet on our place it hasn't. I had a guy come here telling me Imidacloprid was this evil stuff and wiping the bees out of the world. I showed him two hives on the boundary that had been there for 20 years that get drift when we spray plus worked on the flowers in our orchard, and he had no answer. We always sprayed late in day to avoid spraying bees directly. He was also going on about Glyphosate so i got a shovel and dug under a tree and the soild was full of worms. Again he had no answer because it was the exact opposite to what he was telling me. I will say muriate of potash kills soil life, that i have seen directly.

Having said all that these days i don't use glysophate or Imidacloprid at all anymore, they dont suit my situation. Local buyers wont buy produce that Imidacloprid has been used on and basta as a weedkiller works better for me.

"... yet on our place it hasn't."

Really??? Have you got any ponds? On my place in Arkansas I could dip a hundred tadpoles with a quart jar without trying... in 1981. Ten years later they were practically gone. Now there are so few frogs that it's hard to find places where they are. As a kid every kid I know had frogs and snakes in their pockets after a walk in the woods.

And you've never heard of Thalidomide babies?

Thalidomide - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Trying to explain away investigated results of a scientific study after stating that you aren't a scientist is like believing the earth is flat because you aren't an astronomer. NOT that you shouldn't always question authority... but that unless you have real training in the field you have no legitimate frame of reference. It would be like some urban dwelling vegan coming out to your ranch and accusing you of abusing your animals because you don't give them coats.

 

[Travlr]

How old?

Threeish...

 

[drink1208]

I had a heifer that looked like she was cleaning before the water bag was even out, I pulled the calf out, which wasnt that hard of pull either, and of course it was dead already but she wasnt due yet but had been keeping an eye on her but she didnt seem to even try to calve herself. anyone else have this experience?

 

[Nick Wagner]

I remember when glyphosate was first sold to us farmers, and later what a miracle it was to harvest clean GMO bean fields some 25 years ago. I've also witnessed a surprising number of friends and family suffer from what is sometimes called farmers disease, non Hodgkin lymphoma. Makes a fellow wonder when you meet long time friends in the doctor's waiting room two hours from home, suffering from a similar, but not identical, rare disease. It's not just pesticides and herbicides that can cause health problems. Just came across an article on forever chemicals, what jumped out at me was the mention of birth defects, which were talked about earlier in this discussion. I'll try to post a link. The news reports on these forever chemicals seem to be becoming more common, lately making headlines in Michigan and Maine. This story gives a little history with a cattle twist from West Virginia and Ohio.

https://www.chicagotribune.com/news...710-iqrm53d4qrdt3dzbxr5exvvfli-htmlstory.html

 

[Nick Wagner]

I had a heifer that looked like she was cleaning before the water bag was even out, I pulled the calf out, which wasnt that hard of pull either, and of course it was dead already but she wasnt due yet but had been keeping an eye on her but she didnt seem to even try to calve herself. anyone else have this experience?

Stick with it, seems at least once every year I say, never seen that before. Had a calf here this spring that his small intestine was hanging out where the umbilical cord would have been. About a foot long section from his stomach to an open end hanging, looked just like the umbilical cord would of, only bigger and hollow. I would sell a heifer as you describe, a cow has but one job, and she just failed the test.

 

[Nick Wagner]

That is what I'm talking about, talking about a study on imidacloprid and then randomly throw in these two chemicals without scientific study. This is what i keep getting when people try telling me chemicals are killing everything. And then people who get influenced by you spread the word that glysophate causes autism because that is what jumped out at them. Its just chinese whispers that turns into misinformation and is dangerous stuff. I can tell you from my experience organic produce is the only thing i know that has killed a lot of people. Raw milk by people who don't understand what they are doing, organic fertiliser killing people with listeria and e coli contamination.

I grew up drinking milk straight from the bulk tank, didn't seem to stunt my or my siblings growth. Just an observation Red. I'd put a smiley face here if I knew how. You have a point on the organic food, case in Maine where folks had started an organic farm, then discovered high amounts of forever chemicals both in their produce and in their children's blood. Seems sludge from the local town's waste treatment facility had been spread on the farm decades before they moved there. Last I heard they were mighty anxious, and I don't blame them.

 

[J Hoy]

I was in a hurry earlier so I forgot to mention that since over a 25 year period I took measurements, photos and samples. Then published what my colleagues and I found in a peer reviewed journal. That is what is called science. You dug up a shovel full of dirt a couple of different years and because there were earthworms in the soil you, by your own observations and generalizations, but not science, decided that the earthworms were doing find and hadn't declined. In order to determine scientifically if you were correct in your "own observations and generalization" you would have had to take out a one foot by one foot square of soil every 5 years at least and count the earthworms in that soil, keeping a record of how many worms there were each time you did that. That would have been actual science and better proof of what you say. Regarding honeybees, we had a wild hive in the side of an old house on our land when we moved here in 1979. They were there until three years ago, when they either moved to somewhere else or died. Since they were where I couldn't get to them, I don't know why they are no longer living in the side of the old house. Thank you for the interesting discussion.

 

[J Hoy]

I grew up drinking milk straight from the bulk tank, didn't seem to stunt my or my siblings growth. Just an observation Red. I'd put a smiley face here if I knew how. You have a point on the organic food, case in Maine where folks had started an organic farm, then discovered high amounts of forever chemicals both in their produce and in their children's blood. Seems sludge from the local town's waste treatment facility had been spread on the farm decades before they moved there. Last I heard they were mighty anxious, and I don't blame them.

I too grew up drinking milk straight from the cow or after it was strained in the cream separator. Didn't hurt me or my siblings either. Raw milk is likely much better for us than processed milk. I grew organic veggies when I was a kid on a ranch near Mission, SD and we all ate them and no one ever got sick. We had no Weak Calf Syndrome, no birth defects so no underbite, overbite, ectopic testes, no cancer and hardly any other health issues in our dairy or beef herds over the years. We did loose quite a few in a big blizzard one February. Some years there was even a blizzard in May. I still like raw milk better than pasteurized. As a very little kid I was extremely sensitive to cigarette smoke (a few minutes exposure made me upchuck-and still does). I seemed to be highly sensitive to certain pesticides used by the neighbors and especially the DDT used to kill flies inside our house by my mother (who was a nurse), so she didn't like flies. I much preferred the flies to the DDT, but since I was only 8 years old, no one listened to me. Now I am 80 and most people still don't, so I am always thankful for those who do. Thank you, Nick.

 

[J Hoy]

I grew up drinking milk straight from the bulk tank, didn't seem to stunt my or my siblings growth. Just an observation Red. I'd put a smiley face here if I knew how. You have a point on the organic food, case in Maine where folks had started an organic farm, then discovered high amounts of forever chemicals both in their produce and in their children's blood. Seems sludge from the local town's waste treatment facility had been spread on the farm decades before they moved there. Last I heard they were mighty anxious, and I don't blame them

I grew up drinking milk straight from the bulk tank, didn't seem to stunt my or my siblings growth. Just an observation Red. I'd put a smiley face here if I knew how. You have a point on the organic food, case in Maine where folks had started an organic farm, then discovered high amounts of forever chemicals both in their produce and in their children's blood. Seems sludge from the local town's waste treatment facility had been spread on the farm decades before they moved there. Last I heard they were mighty anxious, and I don't blame them.

Actually, Red, a lot of studies say there is a direct correlation between the increase in the use of glyphosate and autism. I taught elementary school in the 1960s and 1970s and I never saw a child with autism in any of the schools I taught in. There was a handsy male principle, but no children with autism or missing legs, feet, digits, hands, arms or other. Also, I don't remember ever seeing a child with Down's Syndrome in any classes in any of the schools. Neither autism or Down's Syndrome were ever mentioned in any of the schools either. In the years between spring of 1995 and 1998, there were 7 or 8 babies born with Down's Syndrome in western Montana, and that is just the ones I heard about, there could have been others. There are also a lot of studies that say that glyphosate and chlorothalonil work synergistically and a lot more that say that glyphosate and imidacloprid work synergistically and quite a few that showed that chlorothalonil and imidacloprid work synergistically. I read the studies, I didn't just make that up as you implied.

 

[Ky hills]

The concept of chemicals causing harm is something to consider, and make you wonder about a lot of things.
I know that pesticides, herbicides etc are bound to be somewhat of a risk. So are additives in foods. There's so many manufactured chemicals and products put in our food and water supply that is a concern of mine too. Several years ago, our electric coop just before you get to our property. Dug up their front yard so to speak and filled it with sludge from their power plant. I've often wondered about chemicals from that leaching into the surrounding area.
As far as autism and other issues in children, I have to wonder about the safety of vaccines.
There's so many things that we are exposed to or consume, that could be potentially harmful, that I can't see just singling out roundup or other agricultural chemicals as the sole culprit unless it's an agenda to blame something while providing cover for other industries, and interests.

 

[J Hoy]

Yeah, I know of a kid with a pretty severe overbite.

How old is the child, Travir?

 

[J Hoy]

Yes. Between 1995 and 2001 there was a high rate of babies born with an underbite. It was in the newspapers and in magazine articles. I didn't have a computer then of course. More recently, about 4 or 5 years ago, I talked to a children's dentist and asked if underbite was still an issue for little children. He said there were still some born with underbite, but overbite was a bigger problem in children. I asked him if it was because the lower jaw, including the chin was underdeveloped. He said yes, how did you know. I said that I study underdeveloped facial bone prevalence on wild and domestic mammals and follow reports of it on birds and children. I think I said somewhere on Cattletoday that of humans tested for imidacloprid, around 80% tested positive and around the same percent for humans tested for glyphosate. In human newborns, imidacloprid was found in the spinal fluid. You do know that goes to the brain, right? Quite a few birds, amphibians, and mammals were born with missing legs or digits, missing or malformed wings, missing or malformed eyes, ears, etc. that I documented with photos. Often the right side was the side affected and the left side normal, unless both sides were affected. When both sides were affected, the right side was often the worst (see ears in photo of over 10 year old horse born in Texas (attached). The horse in the photo also appears to have at least a slight overbite, but it is difficult to tell for sure at the angle the photo was taken. The ears are the issue. If you ever watch TV, you might have seen the Shriner's Hospital ads to raise money. They show a lot of children with missing arms, hands, digits, legs, feet, etc. or spina bifida and other serious birth defects. St. Jude's hospital ads show lots of children with cancer at a young age. Right after the birth defects began occurring on the wild and domestic animal, ungulates especially, hearts and cancer went up in the very young children, even newborns. So the answer to your question is a resounding yes. Unfortunately, no one would do anything about the wild newborns having birth defects. And no one in Montana or at the EPA in the late 1990's or since seemed to care at all about the increase in the similar birth defects on human newborns. Also, sorry to tell you this on Cattletoday, but our Montana Ag Dept. told me that birth defects on livestock were the owner's problem. I asked them if that was true if the owner had nothing to do with what was causing the birth defects, and they just repeated it was the livestock owner's problem. Thank you for asking, by the way. At least, you care about the children.

That is supposed to say "heart defects and cancer went up in the very young children, even newborns" eight lines up from the bottom line. Sorry about that.

 

[J Hoy]

I call the bs. We had a large field which was planted to orchard where we sprayed roundup five or six times a year for 30 years. When we pulled orchard out seeded with pasture, first couple of years the strips where we sprayed ground on tree lines most grasses grew well but some types of grass didn't like it, two years later you can't see a difference. That cattle in that paddock have never had an issue or lost a calf and its been 12 years now. We also used imidacloprid in there. Can i ask, have you first hand experience with this or just something you've read like all the other scare mongers out there.

Yeah, I know of a kid with a pretty severe overbite.

 

[J Hoy]

I will talk to you about the child later.

 

[J Hoy]

How old is the child, Travir?

I found your reply, sorry and also sorry I spelled your "name" wrong.

The concept of chemicals causing harm is something to consider, and make you wonder about a lot of things.
I know that pesticides, herbicides etc are bound to be somewhat of a risk. So are additives in foods. There's so many manufactured chemicals and products put in our food and water supply that is a concern of mine too. Several years ago, our electric coop just before you get to our property. Dug up their front yard so to speak and filled it with sludge from their power plant. I've often wondered about chemicals from that leaching into the surrounding area.
As far as autism and other issues in children, I have to wonder about the safety of vaccines.
There's so many things that we are exposed to or consume, that could be potentially harmful, that I can't see just singling out roundup or other agricultural chemicals as the sole culprit unless it's an agenda to blame something while providing cover for other industries, and interests.

Forever chemicals are very dangerous. However, I couldn't find a significant increase in the year 1994 for the use of any of the forever chemicals and many had been in use for some time. DDT is still found in animal tissue in tests even though it was banned in 1972. Some PFAS chemicals began being used quite a while after 1994. The use of imidacloprid and Chlorothalonil increased by millions of pounds in 1994 (imidacloprid had not been used before that date). Glyphosate was already being used in millions of pounds before and in 1994, but the use went up dramatically in 1996 on Roundup Ready crops. All of these increases happened in states directly upwind of Montana and in Montana. The main birth defects we reported in our studies began being observed in spring of 1995 on wild and domestic animals, other mammals, including children and on birds. So many species being suddenly born with identical birth defects can only be caused by an environmental factor, such as a new toxin or combination of toxins.

 

[J Hoy]

How old is the child, Travlr?

I found your reply, sorry about asking again.

 

[J Hoy]

I found your reply, sorry about asking again.

Hi Travlr, did you look at my website? It is (www.judyhoy.com). My web person is the mother of a chemically sensitive child, so we together turned it pretty much into a sight to save the young ones of all kinds. When you get it, you will see a fox kit photo with the Scientific American article about the SD imidacloprid/WTD study I posted above right above the photo. Right below the photo it says explaining the use of homeopathic cell salts and below that title it says "click here." Click on that and an article will come up in which I explain how I use homeopathic cell salts, especially those called Calc. Phos. 6X and 30X. Those are the same cell salt, but 30X is better because the electrolyte effects produced by one tablet lasts for around 6 hours and a 6X tablet's effects only last for three hours. Also, giving one tablet of Calc. Phos. 30X at least morning and night helps the cells of an animal with a broken bone heal in half the time it takes without the cell salt. Calc. Phos. 6X promotes the bone or bones to heal in 2/3 the usual time. It tells all about that in the article on the website and what issues I found the cell salt tablets helped with. I also used Bioplasma, which is all 12 cell salts in one tablet. The Calc. Phos. 6X tablet was given twice a day to several children who had underbite by their parents and the parents reported to me that their children's faces grew to normal with a normal bite. No human youngster that I know about was given Calc. Phos. to help overbite to grow to normal, but the only way to see if it helps is to give it. Calc. Phos. is actually good for all bone growth, including on old people, is good for helping digestion and many other calcium dependent cellular processes. One year after I began taking one tablet morning and night, I had the bone density of a normal 30 year old and I was 59 years old. A year before when I got tested I had fairly severe osteoporosis. I also had joint pain, got headaches all the time and had trouble digesting my food. All of those issues went away when I began taking the Calc. Phos. 6X tablet twice a day. I still take them every day and still no joint pain and no headaches, etc. Now I am over 80 years old. The article on the website gives a lot more information about young animals and children, with before and after photos of animals that were given the cell salts. I have to get the cell salts at Luckyvitamin.com now because they are inexpensive, especially if several bottles are purchased at once, because with a $50 purchase, there is no postage charged. I have no idea how long it takes to make a 3 year old child's lower jaw grow to normal. I only had an overbite on a female goat kid to try it on. Her before and after photos are with the other before and after photos at the bottom of the article. I was never given a before and after photo of any of the children whose parents said now have normal bites. One little girl is described in the article on the website. Since everything is on the website, I just have parents read the article and look at the before and after photos and decide for themselves. Most never report back about what they do or what happens. About three weeks ago a mother called me and told me that several years ago, I told her about the Calc. Phos. She said she did try it on her two children who both had an underbite. She said both of their faces grew to be normal with a totally normal bite. She apologized for taking so long to tell me thank you for telling her about the Calc. Phos. As you would expect, I was both pleased and surprised. So if you give my website to the parents of the little 3 year old child with overbite, and tell them what to click on, they can do whatever they think is best after they see the information. Please tell them to give or take one tablet each time, not four like it says on the bottle. Taking four at once just wastes three of them. I asked the person in charge of making them why it says to take four and he said it just sounded good. He had no idea how cell salts work or that they are actually electrolytes that help cells uptake the minerals the cells need to function properly. Thank you for your help. Hopefully, the parents will try it and the little guy or gal's face will grow to normal with a totally normal bite and normal sized chin and have a very happy life.

 

[TCRanch]

I had a heifer that looked like she was cleaning before the water bag was even out, I pulled the calf out, which wasnt that hard of pull either, and of course it was dead already but she wasnt due yet but had been keeping an eye on her but she didnt seem to even try to calve herself. anyone else have this experience?

Makes me wonder if she had twins. Not uncommon for them to have them in different areas, so you may not have noticed the first one.