Liquid Feed Over Grain??

[Anonymous]

Could someone please answer these questions for me-
How high do grain prices have to go to encourage the use of more liquid feed in your animals' diets?

 

[shorty]

I don't think anything would encourage me to use liquid feed supplements because most of them use urea as the protien source , My father always stayed away from urea years ago when we fed steers and I guess it stuck with me , I don't feed urea. I use soybean meal for protien and as the bean price keeps going up so does the meal price. I don't know how prices compare but fertilzer grade urea is way up there so I think feed grade urea would also be high. I don't know if if you would be saving much by using using urea over meal.

 

[TexasBred]

Most of the old timers didn't like urea because in years past many feed companies didn't know how to use it properly. Urea can be dangerous but used properly has it's place. The major liquid feed manufacturers have pretty good quality control standards and make safe products. The same for companies that manufacture bagged feeds containing urea. I wouldn't be afraid of it at all. In my area 32% protein liquid feed runs about $230 a ton delivered to your lick tank. (Westway brand). Others are probably comparable. And contrary to popular belief it won't kill your horse or jenny if it eats from the lick tank. On the other hand soybean meal is around $400 a ton delivered. This can be diluted down by mixing it with corn or another grain source but would have to be hand fed. The convenience of liquid feed is a plus as well. That said, I'm not using it but have used it in the past. Don't think I ever put an ounce of weight on a cow with it but used it in the winter for increased intake of low quality hay and maintain body condition. Unless you buy a liquid feed with elevated levels of fat it has very little energy.

 

[novaman]

I look at the protein content. I feel liquid is a good way to go. The urea is perfectly safe. How often can you feed something to a cow that has a protein equivalent of 287%? The point I'm making is its similarly if not cheaper priced then a lot of other supplements and it is just as good of quality. Plant protein broken down to the same components that urea gets broken down to so essentially there is no difference in the protein quality.

 

[MikeC]

Liquid supplements may not be enough nutrition for poor hay

Livestock Update, January 2004

John B. Hall, Extension Animal Scientist, Beef, VA Tech



With this year's poor quality hay crop, producers are looking for ways to improve hay intake and cow nutrition. One option producers turn to is liquid supplements. These molasses-based supplements are designed as a self-fed protein supplement for low protein hays and silages, and they work well for this purpose.

Every year in Virginia, some producers use these liquid supplements to provide energy and protein to cattle. Because liquid supplements are only moderate in energy, they are an expensive, although convenient, method to supplement energy to beef cows. When hays are extremely low in energy content like most of this year's first cutting grass hay, liquid supplements will not provide enough energy to meet the cows needs. As a result, cows will lose weight despite the availability of liquid supplement.

Some producers are pouring liquid supplement over (or into) round bales in order to increase forage intake. This method will increase hay intake but cows still might not be consuming enough energy. Using the Nutrient Requirements of Beef Cattle, late pregnant cows fed poor first cutting hay (44 % TDN) will lose 1 body condition score (about 100 lbs) in 60 days. By treating the same hay with a liquid supplement, we may increase hay consumption by 10 %. The increase in energy intake from the additional hay and liquid supplement will double the time it will take the cow to lose weight.

The result of using the liquid supplement is a dramatic reduction in weight loss; however, cows are still losing weight. Cows that lose weight in late pregnancy take longer to rebreed and have less vigorous calves. In comparison, feeding the same poor quality hay along with 5 lbs of corn gluten feed will allow cows to maintain their weight during late gestation.

 

[TexasBred]

Mike, you're in 'bama, I'm in Texas. In our areas energy should not be a problem in winter. Cows get good and comfortable about the time we put out heavy jacket on. That's about 10 days out of the year for me. :lol:

 

[MikeC]

Mike, you're in 'bama, I'm in Texas. In our areas energy should not be a problem in winter. Cows get good and comfortable about the time we put out heavy jacket on. That's about 10 days out of the year for me. :lol:

HAIR OF THE COW...
CALCULATING COW ENERGY REQUIREMENTS
As temperatures drop, the energy requirements for your cows increases. The lower critical temperature for a dry cow is 32 degrees F. A cow's energy requirements increase 1% for each degree the wind chill is below the lower critical temperature.

To calculate energy requirements, follow these guidelines: Obtain expected wind chill requirements from local weather forecasts. Calculate the magnitude of cold by subtracting the degree of wind chill from 32 degrees. Calculate the energy needs based on 1% for each degree below the critical temperature. Feed cows the appropriate increase to meet their energy requirements.

Cows that have a wet hair coat reach their critical temperature at 59 degrees F., which is 27 degrees warmer than dry hair coat cows. The energy requirements for wet cows change twice as much for each degree change in wind chill. To calculate the magnitude of cold when a cow is wet, subtract the wind chill from 59 degrees F. and multiply by two.

 

[TexasBred]

Mike, you're in 'bama, I'm in Texas. In our areas energy should not be a problem in winter. Cows get good and comfortable about the time we put out heavy jacket on. That's about 10 days out of the year for me. :lol:

HAIR OF THE COW...
CALCULATING COW ENERGY REQUIREMENTS
As temperatures drop, the energy requirements for your cows increases. The lower critical temperature for a dry cow is 32 degrees F. A cow's energy requirements increase 1% for each degree the wind chill is below the lower critical temperature.

To calculate energy requirements, follow these guidelines: Obtain expected wind chill requirements from local weather forecasts. Calculate the magnitude of cold by subtracting the degree of wind chill from 32 degrees. Calculate the energy needs based on 1% for each degree below the critical temperature. Feed cows the appropriate increase to meet their energy requirements.

Cows that have a wet hair coat reach their critical temperature at 59 degrees F., which is 27 degrees warmer than dry hair coat cows. The energy requirements for wet cows change twice as much for each degree change in wind chill. To calculate the magnitude of cold when a cow is wet, subtract the wind chill from 59 degrees F. and multiply by two.

Mike.... Maybe thats what he teaches in the classroom but it's not the case in the pasture and even so, the cow will eat hay or whatever is available much more agressively in cool weather than in hot weather. Now up north where it gets -20 sure a lot of extra energy is needed. Down here. They hardly put on long hair.

 

[gerardplauche]

MikeC - You are comparing apples to oranges with TexasBred. Two different regions require two different diets.

 

[MikeC]

MikeC - You are comparing apples to oranges with TexasBred. Two different regions require two different diets.

Excuse me. That info came for Texas A&M. :roll:

 

[TexasBred]

I wouldn't think Northeast Texas is not that much different than Alabama weather wise. We have what we call "cold" occasionally but at the most it last a few hours. Even have an occasional ice storm but it effects people more than cattle.

 

[MikeC]

I wouldn't think Northeast Texas is not that much different than Alabama weather wise. We have what we call "cold" occasionally but at the most it last a few hours. Even have an occasional ice storm but it effects people more than cattle.

Energy is not just a cold weather need for cattle. If they are not getting sufficient energy from pastures or hay, they need to be supplemented.

If the liquid feed doesn't meet energy needs, then it's not a good buy. Some does, some don't.

 

[Anonymous]

Mike C-

Liquid feed must be effective because there is millions of tons of it marketed in the U.S. alone. I am asking if (and at what point) does liquid feed start to displace grain as feed.

 

[Anonymous]

Shorty,
Thanks for the reply.
All nitrates are going up - so I guess feed grade Urea would too.

 

[MikeC]

Mike C-

Liquid feed must be effective because there is millions of tons of it marketed in the U.S. alone. I am asking if (and at what point) does liquid feed start to displace grain as feed.

It obviously already has started to replace grain as a supplement in a big way.

My point is that some liquid feeds do the substitution job better than others......

Only thing I can see hindering it's growth is to find a cheaper carrier, other than molasses, because of the ethanol boom.

 

[TexasBred]

I wouldn't think Northeast Texas is not that much different than Alabama weather wise. We have what we call "cold" occasionally but at the most it last a few hours. Even have an occasional ice storm but it effects people more than cattle.

Energy is not just a cold weather need for cattle. If they are not getting sufficient energy from pastures or hay, they need to be supplemented.

If the liquid feed doesn't meet energy needs, then it's not a good buy. Some does, some don't.

Mike you were the one that made the "weather post". The original question concerned whether to feed liquid feed or soybean meal. I recommended adding corn to the sbm to increase energy, dilute the protein and lower the cost.

Liquid feed has very little energy unless it contains a level of added fat. But a majority of users feed it as a protein supplement and the companies basically sell it as a "protein supplement" not an energy supplement.

Most of the companies are already using other ingredients as carriers and reduce the amount of molasses in the mix due to the high cost of molasses. It will still look and smell like molasses but "read the tag".

 

[MikeC]

I wouldn't think Northeast Texas is not that much different than Alabama weather wise. We have what we call "cold" occasionally but at the most it last a few hours. Even have an occasional ice storm but it effects people more than cattle.

Energy is not just a cold weather need for cattle. If they are not getting sufficient energy from pastures or hay, they need to be supplemented.

If the liquid feed doesn't meet energy needs, then it's not a good buy. Some does, some don't.

Mike you were the one that made the "weather post". The original question concerned whether to feed liquid feed or soybean meal. I recommended adding corn to the sbm to increase energy, dilute the protein and lower the cost.



Liquid feed has very little energy unless it contains a level of added fat. But a majority of users feed it as a protein supplement and the companies basically sell it as a "protein supplement" not an energy supplement.

Most of the companies are already using other ingredients as carriers and reduce the amount of molasses in the mix due to the high cost of molasses. It will still look and smell like molasses but "read the tag".

I made the "WEATHER" post AFTER your post saying that energy wouldn't be a problem for you in Texas. Now I don't know where you are in Texas, but Amarillo is the coldest place on the planet to me. Isn't that in Texas? :lol:

 

[TexasBred]

hahahaha.....Mike I'll agree with you 100% about Amarillo. Only been there a few times but brutal cold in winter and hot as the hinges of he11 in summer. And yes it's in Texas but should be in far west "Oklahoma". :lol: I referenced "Northeast Texas" to Alabama. Should be similiar in climate, rainfall, grass selections, hay quality and cattle. Course we have a lot of brimmer influence in a lot of the cattle over here and they do great on hay and low quality grazing..winter and summer....maintain body condition, give birth to small calves that grow fast and the cows are just good hustlers and give lots of milk.

 

[novatech]

A little off subject but I have noticed that cattle seem to know what they need. When it is cold my cattle prefer johnson grass ( higher sugar content ) hay over bluestem. When it is warmer they prefer the bluestem. It would be interesting to see if they did the same with liquid feed with and without energy.

 

[TexasBred]

Energy will have nothing to do with consumption of liquid feed. They eat it for protein supplementation and if you don't have mineral out they may detect the mineral in the liquid feed and eat more of it just trying to get the mineral they need.