LGD Discussion

[Farm Family]

In Oregon the wolf packs kill so many LGDs the government has a repayment plan for the ranchers.

The wolves are here but on the high ground with the elk so both those species can stay up there…coyotes she is handling, deer leave my hay alone. Grizzlies come down and so do the cougars…they do not like all her raucous barking…easier places than here maybe

 

[Farm Family]

Wolves kill the donkeys too. This is what species covered for compensation for kills by protected wolves in the state of Oregon-"Livestock" means ratites, psittacines, horses, mules, jackasses, cattle, llamas, alpacas, sheep, goats "Working dog" means any animal of the species Canis familiaris used to aid in the herding or guarding of livestock..

These are usually packs of wolves. They become habituated to killing cattle because it's easy. LSG dogs are also killed. Its almost impossible to stop wolf attacks with strips of colored flags tied on fences, (fladdery noise makers, etc), All the things a rancher must do before 1 or 2 wolves are allowed to be removed by ODFW. Usually these packs just move on to another ranch in the area.

Recent livestock kills in Oregonhttps://dfw.state.or.us/Wolves/docs/dep_inv/2022/ODFW%20Depredation%20Investigation%20Report%20220809.pdf

Here is the rigamarole you must go through to get compensation for LSDG killed by wolves.

ORS 610.150 – Wolf predation loss compensation program

As used in this section, (a) “Livestock” means ratites, psittacines, horses, mules, jackasses, cattle, llamas, alpacas, sheep, goats, swine, bison, domesticated fowl…

oregon.public.law

Is it any wonder when collared wolves are found shot by the roadside or packs poisoned $50,000.00+ rewards are posted for the person responsible but no one ever turns them in because they are heros.

Good grief…wolves not far from us and we hear them but they like the higher ground with the elk herds I am told and so with the home place in the valley she does not contend with them but our cattle graze the high lands. So far been fine but…yikes…you hope you don't have an issue…one LGD is not going to do much in that scenario

 

[highlandvines]

We have 2 maremma LGDs. Haven't had an issue yet, we don't have wolves near us buy coyotes and foxes stay away. We'll find dead coon and possum in the pastures. They've done a good enough job we put our beehives inside the pasture so they can keep bears away. So far so good.

 

[greybeard]

Open season sounds even better.

As high as they are, bullets are still cheaper than dog food or Horse and Mule feed.

 

[Travlr]

As high as they are, bullets are still cheaper than dog food or Horse and Mule feed.

The problem then being that you have to be there at the right time. We need a mechanical watchdog that shoots projectiles and has sophisticated facial recognition technology.

It wouldn't even need to be lethal as long as it made the predators leave the livestock alone.

 

[SBMF 2015]

The female has a range of around a half mile,

This is where I have an issue with them. We've had a couple neighbors over the years who had LGDs. A mile radius is roughly what they would run. Neighbors here are just too close.
For as smart as they are they just don't understand where the human property lines are.
They would make total sense out west where they talk in sections or square miles not acres.

My landlord has a jack donkey in with his sheep. "Albert" seems to do a good job. But there aren't many grizzly bears east of the Mississippi.

 

[greybeard]

It wouldn't even need to be lethal as long as it made the predators leave the livestock alone.

Therein lies the biggest problem. Unless one lives out in the middle of no where, that kind of 'protection' usually just runs one's problems off on to someone else's property and they have to deal with person #1's problems..

(I've never lived where wolves or bears were a problem but have where coyotes were abundant)

I've never been much on making my problem some else's problem.

 

[Farm Family]

We have 2 maremma LGDs. Haven't had an issue yet, we don't have wolves near us buy coyotes and foxes stay away. We'll find dead coon and possum in the pastures. They've done a good enough job we put our beehives inside the pasture so they can keep bears away. So far so good.

Our LGD is a Maremma Kuvasz…I like the combination and see things from both breeds in her disposition

 

[Farm Family]

As high as they are, bullets are still cheaper than dog food or Horse and Mule feed.

I have no issues using the gun if needed. We have had to with troublesome young lone coyotes that don't take a hint and take the long way around the farm.

Bears are off limits and sadly it seems the authorities like to drop the troubled bears close to us - less public use land ie fancy campgrounds and marked hiking trails…but they are still a no if you get caught. Yikes! So she does keep them at bay so long as we do our job with "attractants"…meaning our garbage, our deads, grain (no creep feeding here)

Cats aka cougars they don't like dogs either…so like bears no attractant less encounter.

 

[Farm Family]

The problem then being that you have to be there at the right time. We need a mechanical watchdog that shoots projectiles and has sophisticated facial recognition technology.

It wouldn't even need to be lethal as long as it made the predators leave the livestock alone.

Love it! Too funny…I see you have humour Travlr! Cheeky is what we call it around here I am not ready for AI or any digital recognition (and here goes my thread)…

The dog is a safety net. When our kids wander their pastures and forests she is right there with them, with us all. Fencing you name it and she loyally lays there for as long as needed or follows as far as you go. A mechanical dog does not cuddle or lick or love. I wonder what the cattle and chickens would think?

 

[Farm Family]

This is where I have an issue with them. We've had a couple neighbors over the years who had LGDs. A mile radius is roughly what they would run. Neighbors here are just too close.
For as smart as they are they just don't understand where the human property lines are.
They would make total sense out west where they talk in sections or square miles not acres.

My landlord has a jack donkey in with his sheep. "Albert" seems to do a good job. But there aren't many grizzly bears east of the Mississippi.

I agree they are very independent thinkers. They have to be. They need space and they need work or they will go look for work. Albert sounds perfect for your landlord and his sheep. Probably doesn't need a dog in the mix

 

[Travlr]

Therein lies the biggest problem. Unless one lives out in the middle of no where, that kind of 'protection' usually just runs one's problems off on to someone else's property and they have to deal with person #1's problems..

(I've never lived where wolves or bears were a problem but have where coyotes were abundant)

I've never been much on making my problem some else's problem.

Yeah, I've heard that before. And I agree if the only solution is to use lethal force. But don't ignore that technology may be able to solve the problem with wolves eventually without having to kill them.

You don't like predators because they kill livestock. How would you feel about them if they didn't?

 

[SBMF 2015]

You don't like predators because they kill livestock. How would you feel about them if they didn't?

There has to be a balance. If not eating livestock means destroying the elk and deer populations that's a problem.

I don't have any firsthand experience with large predators. We have coyotes and very very few cougars.
What we do have (and this is a really bad example) is raccoons. Those furry little garbage disposals destroy everything. They don't directly harm cattle, but they destroy feed, poop on everything, chew everything. They are detrimental to ground nesting birds. Used to have enough pheasants and quail to hunt a little. Now I'm excited if I see any.
We hunt, trap, and kill every raccoon we see. Some of us killed a bunch last fall that obviously were sick with something. Mother Nature trying to correct an over population.

 

[farmerjan]

I have a very very intense hatred of raccoons... for all the reasons @SBMF 2015 stated and a couple more personal ones.... They would get into the chicken coops... yes, tear wire off windows... had them manage to open hooks and eyes... including figuring out the ones with the little spring loaded slide under the hook... they got into the pen of 30 plus young purebred show birds and tore them apart... 1/2 grown chicks with wings torn off, legs torn off... strew all around in the woods and next to none of them having been eaten.... I went ballistic and it made me despise the da@#ed things ever since. There was a family of them that had the audacity to go in the open run door one evening when I was going up to lock them in for the night... I would let out a different pen of birds for an hour or 2 each evening to get some fresh grass and bugs.. we had the dogs and it was a couple hundred feet up the hill from my kitchen window...usually very safe in the daylight hours...... all of a sudden the chickens come flying out the little door into the coop from the run squawking and flying ... I grabbed the .22 and went running up the little hill.. it wasn't even dusk yet... and shot the female and 3 young ones coming out the little run door... and the big one that I assume was a boar coon, jumped at me coming out the door and I missed him.... had only lost 1 bird inside... and I used it as bait and caught that sorry piece of ..... 2 days later in the live trap and GLADLY shot it....
They will move sq bales off the top of the metal garbage can lids, to get in them, make a mess of the feed....knock things off the table and shelf in the big barn where the chute is and we keep ear tags and such....
I HATE THEM and will go out of my way to hit them on the road if I can also.... them and ground hogs I despise...

 

[SBMF 2015]

I have a very very intense hatred of raccoons... for all the reasons @SBMF 2015 stated and a couple more personal ones.... They would get into the chicken coops... yes, tear wire off windows... had them manage to open hooks and eyes... including figuring out the ones with the little spring loaded slide under the hook... they got into the pen of 30 plus young purebred show birds and tore them apart... 1/2 grown chicks with wings torn off, legs torn off... strew all around in the woods and next to none of them having been eaten.... I went ballistic and it made me despise the da@#ed things ever since. There was a family of them that had the audacity to go in the open run door one evening when I was going up to lock them in for the night... I would let out a different pen of birds for an hour or 2 each evening to get some fresh grass and bugs.. we had the dogs and it was a couple hundred feet up the hill from my kitchen window...usually very safe in the daylight hours...... all of a sudden the chickens come flying out the little door into the coop from the run squawking and flying ... I grabbed the .22 and went running up the little hill.. it wasn't even dusk yet... and shot the female and 3 young ones coming out the little run door... and the big one that I assume was a boar coon, jumped at me coming out the door and I missed him.... had only lost 1 bird inside... and I used it as bait and caught that sorry piece of ..... 2 days later in the live trap and GLADLY shot it....
They will move sq bales off the top of the metal garbage can lids, to get in them, make a mess of the feed....knock things off the table and shelf in the big barn where the chute is and we keep ear tags and such....
I HATE THEM and will go out of my way to hit them on the road if I can also.... them and ground hogs I despise...

They don't care. Had them eat a plastic bottle of vision CDT that we forgot next to the chute.

A friend had some get into their chicken coop this spring. He borrowed some traps and the last time I asked he was up to fifteen!

 

[CowboyRam]

I have a very very intense hatred of raccoons... for all the reasons @SBMF 2015 stated and a couple more personal ones.... They would get into the chicken coops... yes, tear wire off windows... had them manage to open hooks and eyes... including figuring out the ones with the little spring loaded slide under the hook... they got into the pen of 30 plus young purebred show birds and tore them apart... 1/2 grown chicks with wings torn off, legs torn off... strew all around in the woods and next to none of them having been eaten.... I went ballistic and it made me despise the da@#ed things ever since. There was a family of them that had the audacity to go in the open run door one evening when I was going up to lock them in for the night... I would let out a different pen of birds for an hour or 2 each evening to get some fresh grass and bugs.. we had the dogs and it was a couple hundred feet up the hill from my kitchen window...usually very safe in the daylight hours...... all of a sudden the chickens come flying out the little door into the coop from the run squawking and flying ... I grabbed the .22 and went running up the little hill.. it wasn't even dusk yet... and shot the female and 3 young ones coming out the little run door... and the big one that I assume was a boar coon, jumped at me coming out the door and I missed him.... had only lost 1 bird inside... and I used it as bait and caught that sorry piece of ..... 2 days later in the live trap and GLADLY shot it....
They will move sq bales off the top of the metal garbage can lids, to get in them, make a mess of the feed....knock things off the table and shelf in the big barn where the chute is and we keep ear tags and such....
I HATE THEM and will go out of my way to hit them on the road if I can also.... them and ground hogs I despise...

We had a family of them in our alfalfa field last year. I got several of them with the swather.

 

[BFE]

There has to be a balance. If not eating livestock means destroying the elk and deer populations that's a problem.

I don't have any firsthand experience with large predators. We have coyotes and very very few cougars.
What we do have (and this is a really bad example) is raccoons. Those furry little garbage disposals destroy everything. They don't directly harm cattle, but they destroy feed, poop on everything, chew everything. They are detrimental to ground nesting birds. Used to have enough pheasants and quail to hunt a little. Now I'm excited if I see any.
We hunt, trap, and kill every raccoon we see. Some of us killed a bunch last fall that obviously were sick with something. Mother Nature trying to correct an over population.

Terriers. Very small range. Intense hatred of anything up to twice their size. Only one coon foolish enough to come on my place was this spring, a young one escaped up a big maple. It lasted a couple days before it made a break for it. Didn't make it 20 feet.

 

[greybeard]

You don't like predators because they kill livestock. How would you feel about them if they didn't?

This thread has officially 'jumped the shark'.

Do you know how ridiculous your question sounds?
What part of the word 'predators' escapes you?


There's only 1 place where that world exists, or ever has all thru the 11 millions of years that coyotes and the approx 1 million years the larger canine predators have been around.
Saturday morning cartoons.

We can't even train mankind to stop being predatory.

 

[Travlr]

This thread has officially 'jumped the shark'.

Do you know how ridiculous your question sounds?
What part of the word 'predators' escapes you?


There's only 1 place where that world exists, or ever has all thru the 11 millions of years that coyotes and the approx 1 million years the larger canine predators have been around.
Saturday morning cartoons.

We can't even train mankind to stop being predatory.

Sorry, I thought maybe you might have something to consider. I don't see everything as black and white. There are a lot of predators I don't have issues with. In fact the only ones I do, are those that prey on livestock and people.

Isn't that why we are talking about LGDs?

 

[Charbrangus]

I have two Pyrenees. Good with everything except coyotes. They hate them with a passion, which is what they should do. The female has a range of around a half mile, the neutered male less, unless they follow us on horseback or ATV's. They think that's big fun.

Pyrenees are great. Every now and then they get a wild hair and wonder. I had one that I used to guard game chickens back in the day. She would hear the roosters make a strange sound and she would run to the middle of them and literally would not let a hawk swoop onto a rooster, darndest thing I ever saw. I never lost a chicken to anything. Found a lot of dead possums and coons but never a dead chicken. Amazing dogs.