Let's talk Udders

[DCortes]

The American Angus Association is just coming out with the new teat and udder EPDs. Just looking at the high accuracy bulls in the list:

Low teat and udder sires:
A A R Ten X 7008 S A
Connealy Comrade 1385
Mogck Bullseye
S A V Pioneer 7301
S Chisum 6175
G A R Inertia

High teat and udder sires:
Connealy Final Product
N Bar Emulation EXT
Leachman Right Time
SAV 004 Density 4336
Sitz Stellar 726D
OCC Emblazon 854E

How do these new EPDs relate to your experiences? Have you used any of the bulls listed? Did you ever improve a bad udder cow using any of these? Did you ever get a bad udder daughter out of any of these from a good udder dam?

 

[GoWyo]

Haven't directly used any of them. I had a Right Time son I used for several years and his daughters have good udders, but so did their dams. Had a couple BC Lookout (Emblazon son) daughters and a BC Lookout son I used for several years. All those cattle hold up pretty well into their early teens, but can break down a little on the suspensory ligament as they age. Their bigger problem is their progeny PAP scores are mostly not very good.

My worst uddered cow is a Baldridge Colonel daughter out of a good uddered cow and her udder isn't bad, but her teats are kind of long and floppy, but I haven't had to help any of her calves. Always weans a good calf. I have one daughter from her that has real good teats and udder from a Gardens Wave son. I have another daughter sired by Resilient in the replacement pen and will be watching udder quality on her as well.

 

[DCortes]

Haven't directly used any of them. I had a Right Time son I used for several years and his daughters have good udders, but so did their dams. Had a couple BC Lookout (Emblazon son) daughters and a BC Lookout son I used for several years. All those cattle hold up pretty well into their early teens, but can break down a little on the suspensory ligament as they age. Their bigger problem is their progeny PAP scores are mostly not very good.

My worst uddered cow is a Baldridge Colonel daughter out of a good uddered cow and her udder isn't bad, but her teats are kind of long and floppy, but I haven't had to help any of her calves. Always weans a good calf. I have one daughter from her that has real good teats and udder from a Gardens Wave son. I have another daughter sired by Resilient in the replacement pen and will be watching udder quality on her as well.

Baldridge Colonel C251 is well below average on both teat and udder according to the research EPD. It also has good accuracy on both.

 

[SBMF 2015]

We have some Stellar daughters at work. Good udders, nice small teats. Easy for the calves to start nursing unassisted. Which is good because they tend to have a strong protective mothering instinct.

 

[W.B.]

yes the Stellar daughters have terrific udders here. Likely not enough milk for some.

 

[Ky hills]

Have no first hand experience with direct daughters but have granddaughters or other descendants of a few of those bulls on the high list.
One thing that comes to mind is that at least with a few of those bulls on that list, they better have good udders cause I sure wouldn’t want to have mess with working with them due to dispositions.
That said if their dispositions were good I wouldn’t mind to have a herd made up of EXT, Emblazon, and probably Density.
I’ve heard several people say some years back that Density was the best female sire they knew of. If I remember right he is by 004 which would rule him out for me.

 

[W.B.]

Have no first hand experience with direct daughters but have granddaughters or other descendants of a few of those bulls on the high list.
One thing that comes to mind is that at least with a few of those bulls on that list, they better have good udders cause I sure wouldn't want to have mess with working with them due to dispositions.
That said if their dispositions were good I wouldn't mind to have a herd made up of EXT, Emblazon, and probably Density.
I've heard several people say some years back that Density was the best female sire they knew of. If I remember right he is by 004 which would rule him out for me.

What no Right Time?

 

[Ky hills]

What no Right Time?

Sorry, not an Angus person necessarily, so I don’t know of all the bulls. We’ve used Angus bulls for probably 25 years and had a few registered cows, mainly been commercial cattle since leaving registered Charolais years ago.
I just commented on what I’ve seen or directly heard.
Right Time is an EXT son right? So I would expect him to be a good female sire.
I had a bull once that was an ET son of Bextor and a Wulf’s EXT daughter,
Had a cow one time also from a Wulf EXT daughter.

 

[W.B.]

Sorry, not an Angus person necessarily, so I don't know of all the bulls. We've used Angus bulls for probably 25 years and had a few registered cows, mainly been commercial cattle since leaving registered Charolais years ago.
I just commented on what I've seen or directly heard.
Right Time is an EXT son right? So I would expect him to be a good female sire.
I had a bull once that was an ET son of Bextor and a Wulf's EXT daughter,
Had a cow one time also from a Wulf EXT daughter.

Just teasing a little. Yes Leachman Right Time is a son of Ext. much milder disposition though. I never had any Right Time influence until I bought Right Time 7861. They are nice cows to have around and easy on the eyes.

 

[J+ Cattle]

I don't know where he falls in your list but the daughters that I have from Tehama Tahoe have very nice udders with small teats. I would knock him a little on the feet, no better than average by my assessment.

 

[DCortes]

I don't know where he falls in your list but the daughters that I have from Tehama Tahoe have very nice udders with small teats. I would knock him a little on the feet, no better than average by my assessment.

Tahoe is about middle of the road. I agree with your observation. I have a young cow by Tahoe with perfect small teats and great udder. She milks a bit more than I would like and her feet are something that needs to be improved on.

 

[W.B.]

I don't know where he falls in your list but the daughters that I have from Tehama Tahoe have very nice udders with small teats. I would knock him a little on the feet, no better than average by my assessment.

That is the only thing that kept me from using Tahoe. I had a son that I ran clean up on heifers and is feet were not that good.

 

[SBMF 2015]

I don't know where he falls in your list but the daughters that I have from Tehama Tahoe have very nice udders with small teats. I would knock him a little on the feet, no better than average by my assessment.

Not sure about the feet, but we had a Tahoe son that we raised and used for a couple years as a clean up bull. His daughters were pretty good.

 

[J+ Cattle]

Tahoe is about middle of the road. I agree with your observation. I have a young cow by Tahoe with perfect small teats and great udder. She milks a bit more than I would like and her feet are something that needs to be improved on.

Even though the Tahoe feet aren't the best, they are far from the worst. With that said I would use him again as he made a lot of improvements across the board for me. Hair shedding was also very good.

The Angus Association comes out with their new EPDs for functional longevity and udder scores after many of us have already made breeding decisions for the year. Do you have any insight into the scores of EZAR Step Up and Cherry Creek Blue Collar? Both of these bulls have had my eye. Step Up for cows and Blue Collar for heifers.

J+ Cattle

 

[W.B.]

Even though the Tahoe feet aren't the best, they are far from the worst. With that said I would use him again as he made a lot of improvements across the board for me. Hair shedding was also very good.

The Angus Association comes out with their new EPDs for functional longevity and udder scores after many of us have already made breeding decisions for the year. Do you have any insight into the scores of EZAR Step Up and Cherry Creek Blue Collar? Both of these bulls have had my eye. Step Up for cows and Blue Collar for heifers.

J+ Cattle

My take on using AI is if I am not improving my weaknesses with AI I am doing something wrong. Just because there are a lot of sorry footed Angus doesn’t mean I should multiply them in my herd. Poor footed bulls don’t get out and breed cows and poor footed cows don’t get to feed and water very well. For me Avg feet Angus aren’t good enough.

 

[Ebenezer]

The system is broken if you have to use a bull with lesser faults.

 

[SBMF 2015]

The system is broken if you have to use a bull with lesser faults.

Or you’re playing on a different level.
As seed stock producers you sometimes go to other production sales looking for the next potential donor cow. Then you look through them and think hmm, they aren’t any better than the ones at home that you have raised you must be doing something right.

 

[DCortes]

Even though the Tahoe feet aren't the best, they are far from the worst. With that said I would use him again as he made a lot of improvements across the board for me. Hair shedding was also very good.

The Angus Association comes out with their new EPDs for functional longevity and udder scores after many of us have already made breeding decisions for the year. Do you have any insight into the scores of EZAR Step Up and Cherry Creek Blue Collar? Both of these bulls have had my eye. Step Up for cows and Blue Collar for heifers.

J+ Cattle

Step Up EPDs are very close to Tahoe's for both Teat and Udder. He only has 21 progeny with scores, so the accuracy is not very good yet. Blue collar is not in the list with research epds.

 

[J+ Cattle]

Step Up EPDs are very close to Tahoe's for both Teat and Udder. He only has 21 progeny with scores, so the accuracy is not very good yet. Blue collar is not in the list with research epds.

Blue Collar is a Tehama Patriarch son, he likely has some data in the list if you're able to share it.

 

[DCortes]

He does, let me share the numbers. In the three EPDs higher is better

Sire Teat acc. Udder acc. Longevity acc.
Patriarch +0.74 0.83 +0.36 0.82 +1.05 0.64
Tahoe +0.69 0.87 +0.68 0.86 +0.93 0.76
Step Up +0.65 0.5 +0.59 0.49 ?