Let's talk Udders

He does, let me share the numbers. In the three EPDs higher is better

Sire Teat acc. Udder acc. Longevity acc.
Patriarch +0.74 0.83 +0.36 0.82 +1.05 0.64
Tahoe +0.69 0.87 +0.68 0.86 +0.93 0.76
Step Up +0.65 0.5 +0.59 0.49 ?
The udder number for Patriarch matches his sire. The udders on the Niagara duaghters here were not very good.
 
The udder number for Patriarch matches his sire. The udders on the Niagara duaghters here were not very good.
Yes sir. Niagara's EPDs are +0.72 (87% acc) for teat and +0.40 (87% acc) for udder. Very similar to Patriarch, on the lower side for udder. I have a heifer out of Patriarch calving within the next 2 weeks. It is early to tell, but the dam had a fantastic udder (udder EPD +0.86).
 
I have been bugging AAA for udder scores for years now. ABS and most of the other semen company's quit reporting udders some time back, so I half suspected that was because the chase after carcass qualities had resulted in overlooking udders, and maybe the semen company's felt reporting them now might be to their disadvantage. It was frustrating to try and pick a bull as the sire of my replacement heifers without that information.

I have been turning in scores for my cows ever since it was first an option, but I noticed very few of the large seed-stock providers were signed up for Maternal Plus, which is a program AAA has for reporting things like udders and open cows etc. Basically all of the things you might look for in a cow. When I would talk to AAA, I was told they were still struggling to get most producers to sign up for Maternal Plus and report udders and to report which cows were open or culled for cause. In my opinion, there are too many seed-stock producers concerned almost entirely with terminal traits. If you look at the udder scores on many of the most popular bulls from the last 10 years, you will notice many have poor numbers. That pretty much confirmed my suspicions on why I wasn't seeing udders discussed in semen catalogs any more.

AAA is also adding an EPD for functional longevity. That score is an effort to compare how long cows are likely to remain productive in your herd. My herd had excellent scores for this. Much better than many of the heavily used bulls in the past few years. I attribute that to my ruthless culling of any cow that didn't give birth and raise a calf to weaning.
 
Katpau, thank you for telling it like it is. Thankfully there are some breeders that care and know the difference. There are a lot of big name bulls on that list are well below breed avg.
 
There are still Angus breeders who have kept maternal traits in mind. You will generally find them signed up for "Maternal Plus". I can think of several in my state and I know of others around the country. They are mostly smaller producers who don't have bulls in the major semen catalogs. Hopefully the release of these new EPD's will change that. If you are buying semen and care about your cows, you should pay attention to $M. I like to see that number at $80 or greater. I am kind of excited to see how the addition of udders and functional longevity will affect $M.
 
There are still Angus breeders who have kept maternal traits in mind. You will generally find them signed up for "Maternal Plus". I can think of several in my state and I know of others around the country. They are mostly smaller producers who don't have bulls in the major semen catalogs. Hopefully the release of these new EPD's will change that. If you are buying semen and care about your cows, you should pay attention to $M. I like to see that number at $80 or greater. I am kind of excited to see how the addition of udders and functional longevity will affect $M.
We have been signed up on Maternal Plus for at least 3 years now, maybe 4. I put all calves in their respective contemporary groups by sex even though some go to different pastures in the summer; i.e., all bull calves in a single group, all heifers in a single group and all steers in a single group. Then that group follows them through development as bulls or replacement heifers. Really like the whole herd reporting and the charts that can be developed and analyzed on the cow herd.
 
I have been bugging AAA for udder scores for years now. ABS and most of the other semen company's quit reporting udders some time back, so I half suspected that was because the chase after carcass qualities had resulted in overlooking udders, and maybe the semen company's felt reporting them now might be to their disadvantage. It was frustrating to try and pick a bull as the sire of my replacement heifers without that information.

I have been turning in scores for my cows ever since it was first an option, but I noticed very few of the large seed-stock providers were signed up for Maternal Plus, which is a program AAA has for reporting things like udders and open cows etc. Basically all of the things you might look for in a cow. When I would talk to AAA, I was told they were still struggling to get most producers to sign up for Maternal Plus and report udders and to report which cows were open or culled for cause. In my opinion, there are too many seed-stock producers concerned almost entirely with terminal traits. If you look at the udder scores on many of the most popular bulls from the last 10 years, you will notice many have poor numbers. That pretty much confirmed my suspicions on why I wasn't seeing udders discussed in semen catalogs any more.

AAA is also adding an EPD for functional longevity. That score is an effort to compare how long cows are likely to remain productive in your herd. My herd had excellent scores for this. Much better than many of the heavily used bulls in the past few years. I attribute that to my ruthless culling of any cow that didn't give birth and raise a calf to weaning.
I don't own any purebred angus, but have some sim-angus and sometimes use an angus bull on my simmentals. Very good comments you posted. Amazing to me how much angus have changed in recent times (20-30 years). I have posted before about the AAA ads years ago poking fun at the simmentals for being "elephants". Now the modern angus are huge - topping gains on bull tests and mature cow size. A turn around for sure from the old days.

I used one angus bull a few years ago on a simmental cow. This bull was recommended to fix/improve feet and udders, which this cow needed. Resulted in a heifer calf that at birth did not look special. But by weaning time, she had excelled. Kept in the herd and has excellent feet and udder. That's correct, this angus bull fixed the feet and udder on this simmental in one generation. Beautiful cow, now a 3 year old with her second calf. Ran cows through the chute last week. This 3 year old had to drag/squeeze herself through the For-most head catch (not a small system). She is the largest cow I have, even at just 3 years old. Bigger than any simmental I have ever owned. Not sure what I need to do with her. She looks good, raises a good calf, but probably not through growing at 3 years old.

I try to keep a maternal herd. Simmental has a longevity epd for many years now. Called stayability (STAY). Their definition of the epd is "Percent of daughters remaining in the cowherd at 6 years of age". Six years does not seem like a good longevity for a cow, but that is their measure. I won't use a bull with a very low stay epd unless I have some reason to think the number is wrong. Just too much risk for me. Plenty of bulls being used for show cattle with very low stay, but that may be a topic for another day. I also try to avoid low MCE epds in the bulls I use.

The new AAA epd for longevity has the definition "number of calves produced by 6 years of age". A little different approach that seems would give a higher value for twins, which I hope to avoid. I think I like the simmental approach better that is based on when a cow leaves the herd instead of number of calves. Anyway, glad that they are at least adding another tool associated with maternal value.

Even with the trend to chase carcass and maximum growth, I suspect there are still lots of angus genetics available that are very maternal. Even though some may think that the breed association controls the direction of the breed, I think the individual breeders still have control by what they do. Breed associations provide data and talking points. Breeders choose the bulls they use. Lots to be said for a little moderation and avoiding extremes, I think. Continue to think maternal if you want to keep or get a maternal herd.

The angus bull I used - MAR Innovation 251. Anyone have any experience or opinion about him?
 
There are still Angus breeders who have kept maternal traits in mind. You will generally find them signed up for "Maternal Plus". I can think of several in my state and I know of others around the country. They are mostly smaller producers who don't have bulls in the major semen catalogs. Hopefully the release of these new EPD's will change that. If you are buying semen and care about your cows, you should pay attention to $M. I like to see that number at $80 or greater. I am kind of excited to see how the addition of udders and functional longevity will affect $M.
It will be interesting how they integrate all the numbers. Generational turnover has been rewarded in the past so maybe the updated system will at least not favor those who turn generations the fastest. Time will tell I guess. I like long lived cows so maybe it helps us find the sires that make them.
 

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