Lesser discussed breeds

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UG":2z377itl said:
Some producers believe that they need some "high headiness" in their cattle so that they will fight off predators. At this point I don't have an opinion whether or not disposition has any influence on an animals willingness to fight coyotes, wild dogs, mountain lions, etc.
I don't believe disposition plays a role in that. I used to but my cows are in a high predation area and some of the quietest cows that I own will stomp a coyote on sight regardless of the danger to their calf. They also get out and work my steep country pretty well and I was really concerned that breeding for docility would dumb them down to where they'd only want to use the easy country... haven't seen that yet...
I think we also need to define what docile is before we can call anything crazy. The wilder charolais and limmis that I've been around just wanted to get away. They'd tear a fence down to get away before they'd fight. My angus cows just get on the fight when things go bad. I'd much rather have one jump and run than try to kill me.
Lucky me, I have a few cows that are salers with angus and neither side has a good dispostion. They run up and fight until they get their fill and then tear down a fence getting away... the best of both worlds. :D
 
cow pollinater":3qhinu1u said:
UG":3qhinu1u said:
Some producers believe that they need some "high headiness" in their cattle so that they will fight off predators. At this point I don't have an opinion whether or not disposition has any influence on an animals willingness to fight coyotes, wild dogs, mountain lions, etc.
I don't believe disposition plays a role in that. I used to but my cows are in a high predation area and some of the quietest cows that I own will stomp a coyote on sight regardless of the danger to their calf. They also get out and work my steep country pretty well and I was really concerned that breeding for docility would dumb them down to where they'd only want to use the easy country... haven't seen that yet...
I think we also need to define what docile is before we can call anything crazy. The wilder charolais and limmis that I've been around just wanted to get away. They'd tear a fence down to get away before they'd fight. My angus cows just get on the fight when things go bad. I'd much rather have one jump and run than try to kill me.
Lucky me, I have a few cows that are salers with angus and neither side has a good dispostion. They run up and fight until they get their fill and then tear down a fence getting away... the best of both worlds. :D
In my world, they belongs in the freezer. Have no time for highheads.
 
Some cattle are fearful /aggressive , meaning they would just as soon run away, but if cornered they will take a round out of you.
Others are just plain nasty and want to make you part of the ground. Some are fine with people but will trample other critters.
Some are fine with bigger kids and adults, but are terrified / curious or want to chase children. There are many variations when it comes to disposition.
A friend of our neighor raises Semmental, and he took actual photos of a bear checking out the cow herd.A couple of the big cows laid an awful licking on that bear. The owner said those cattle had never flicked an ear at humans though.
I believe those cow knew that bear was a threat to the calves and that is why they attacked the bear. Some cattle do have brains, although I have seen cattle that were dumber than a stump and would stand there and watch the bear eat their calves.
I do think breeding has an effect on dispostion and brains, and even though some cattle are range raised (verses pasture raised where they see humans all the time) they are still calmer and more docile than others once they realize people feed them. Docile does not always have to mean dumb.
I think in general more attention needs to be paid to selecting animals that are calmer and not mean. It usually means easier handling, less injuries both to animals, humans, fences, and better finishing. A stressed animal come time to butcher is often a tough eating one, and often the carcass quality isn't so good.
I think there is still a mentality out there
( besides people saying they have a predator problem) where people want to "cowboy" the animals, and could care less about disposition.
Nite Hawk
 
hooknline":3oll9e3g said:
BMCC":3oll9e3g said:
Thanks Taurus, thought I had photo posting figured out , but I guess not. My belief is that many of the so called minor breeds still have important uses in the cattle industry today. It is interesting how so many diverse traits were developed in different environments worldwide.
Bingo. A lot has to do with climates and the animals being able to thrive in those climates.
And terrain and forage I'm sure plays a small part too.
 
Good thread.
Chris w/ Chi's. You post pics of good, bad & indifferent cattle, because you say you want to be honest. That's fine. But not good marketing.
People expect you to post your best, and expect to see lesser quality when they get to your farm. When breeders see the poorer cattle (like some you posted) it is a turnoff. It says "this breeder doesn't have pride in what they are breeding". When you "promote" (which posting pics is promoting) poor udders, or structurally incorrect cows, you are sending the wrong message (I hope).
I'm trying to help - not bash. You are not looking at it from the buyers veiwpoint.

Lots of good comments on here.
 
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by Taurus:
For some strange reason I never seen Aryshire cattle around here, what's the issue with them? I seen more Dutch Belted cattle than Aryshire.....

Ayrshire cattle are listed among the list of breed that are on the endangered list by the Livestock Conservancy. Ayrshire is a dairy breed. For the most part, those who have Ayrshire are dedicated breeders to the breed, which is fine, and these people are a vital part to representing the breed.

We feel that what has more of an impact of the success, failure, or use of many of these breeds has to do partly with the breed registry or lack thereof. Also after some of the breed associations were formed, dissension tore many apart because of the direction that a few wanted to take the breed or rules that they wanted to impose. Some of these breeds still lack organization and are unable and unwilling to do EPD's on their breed no matter how well they can perform and could contribute to the beef industry.

If you look at the beef industry as a whole, what color are they today? BLACK!!! Why? Because of the pressure and promotion of the Angus breed. Pick up any sale catalog today and any of the Continental breeds, it is almost impossible to find a purebred animal of any breed.

by cow pollinator:
I've seen some information on the Normandes that looked pretty good but I'd get killed on the spots here.

In France, the Normande has a program similar to the Angus CAB here in the US.

Other factors that affect some breeds or availability is disease and/or the home country of these breeds. Some breeds are unable to have semen or embryos imported into the US because of various diseases. Some bulls have semen that gets imported into the US and then on later test end up testing positive later, ending exports of semen. Schmallenberg, is one such disease in the European Union.

Another factor is that some of the foreign breed societies and groups, while they want to export semen, do not want any breed associations formed for breeders to register these breeds and try to prevent this from happening.

The semen, in the early years of the US breeding to these breeds was that in Europe, many of these countries had a socialistic approach to breeding. If an outstanding female was discovered, then the breed society would tell the owner what he was going to breed the cow to and if it was a bull, which bull stud would take possession. Some of this still is true today. In earlier years, these breed societies would take all of the young sires and collect 5-10,000 units of semen and then the bulls were slaughtered. When the offspring of these bulls were evaluated, then the very top end of these bulls were selected to be further used in the herds. The semen on the other bulls was disposed of.

When we started importing semen from some of these breeds into the US, the semen that we received was those of the "reject" bulls. While some of them may have still been good animals, other had issues with various traits, disposition being one of them, but the US was hungry for using these new breeds and didn't care.

Today, still in the European countries, an breeders in not allowed to use an A.I. bull on more that 10-15% of the herd. With this limiting factor, they have less inbreeding in their breeds than we do here in the US. Here if a bull becomes popular, no matter what breed it is, everyone wants to use him.

What is different is that our registries were not created as other registries were with a group of breeders deciding to band together and form an association. We started the Composite Beef Cattle Registry because we were seeing animals that were unable to register with many of the registries because of the breed percentage or the herd books were closed. With the Composite Beef Cattle Registry, we were able to get an export certificate approved by the Russian Federation and then we provided registration and export certificates to over 200 head of Hereford animals that were exported to farmers in Russia.

The Composite Dairy Cattle Registry came about as the result of new rules of another registry and their unwillingness to represent members in the manner in which an association should. Through our perseverance and working with other groups, we are having an impact not only in North America (US and Canada) but Internationally as well. We have members in the US and Canada and have recently had breeders join from the UK and are in correspondence with other countries where groups are interested in becoming an affiliate of ours. The common theme we hear from them is that "their is strength in numbers".

We just came back from attending the World Dairy Expo. We had the opportunity to visit with some of these semen companies from overseas, and as the Composite Dairy Cattle Registry, and Composite Beef Cattle Registry, they are beginning to open their eyes to see that with breeders and producers having the option of registering their animals, their sales of semen are increasing. A common question from them is what can we do to help? What do you need from us? Cross breeding has been so downplayed in the dairy industry and other breeds try to discredit these breeds. But facts speak for themselves and the breeds that we represent continue to grow and are showing that they can compete with or outproduce the traditional dairy breeds.

We have been able to move into the age of genomics with our "Red" breeds and so far the genomic results we are seeing we are way out in front and above those of the Ayrshire.

Other facts, is that on the August dairy proofs, on the Elite Cow List, the breeds that we represent continue to grow and our breeds made up over 60% of the animals excluding Holstein and Jersey. But, the top animal on Net Merit $ in every breed was a crossbred animal.
 
We have a small bunch of British Whites, along with a few high % Red Angus cows. Our marketing doesn't include working with sale barns, so we don't take the hit on the cattle like we would through a sale barn. In choosing that breed, we were looking for grass efficiency, disposition, good mothering instincts, and another dose of good disposition -- and if we've gotta feed them, we wanted some eye candy, too. They've worked well for us. We have a couple mamas that can be snots for a day or two after calving, but we never have to cowboy up with any of them. Others I know that own BWs do sell commercially, but not out West; they get docked in the Midwest, but not as bad out here. One guy I know in Illinois ships a load of BW bulls to either Colorado or Wyoming every year, and they get put to work on BA commercial cows.

A gal near me raises Red Devon (beef type vs. milkers), but I'm not aware of anyone else in the area that does. Friend of ours in MO has kept a herd of Red Polls for years and years, but has recently introduced RA bulls, and is really liking the calves he gets with that cross.
 

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