lepto questions

[denoginnizer]

could lepto cause abortions of 7 to 9 month old unborn calves?

The reason I ask is that 3 months ago I bought a herd of 112 cows . 88 of them were pairs . The remaining 24 for guarnteed to be bred 7 to 9 months bred.
When the cows arrived I put the bulls in with them.

The guy that sold me the cows said that he doesnt know why the cows havent calved and suspects lepto. I suspect dishonesty.
I have checked the cows and calves everyday and sometimes twice a day. I have not noticed a dead calf anywhere ,have not noticed any blood dripping out of any cows and I look for these kinda things.
Yesterday , I called the vet out and had him preg check the cows. He found a few to be 5 to 7+ months bred but 10 of the cows were 3 months bred and 2 of the cows were open. All the cows I penned had dry bags except 1 and she was turned back with the other cows with pairs.
If it had been 4 or 5 cows that short bred I would of excepted it but 12 is just to high in my opinion. What do yall think?
So what are the chances of a 7 to 9 month bred cow getting lepto , aborting the calf and re-breeding within weeks?

I have repeatedly invited the man that sold me the cattle to come out and he always comes up with some excuse like, his post driver is broken , planting grass , got to go out of town, help quit, Federal agents are at his farm, etc.

 

[milkmaid]

...But I wouldn't think a cow that aborted that late in gestation due to Lepto (or for any reason, really) would breed back in a matter of weeks. Although I could be wrong.

 

[randiliana]

I don't know much about lepto, but if you are having calves abort at 7-9 months, you should be finding SOMETHING!! Especially if you suspect a problem with more than 1-2 and you are checking them. The only way I would ever believe a guarantee is if I bought them from a bred sale, or if I got the preg certificate from the vet that preg checked them. And contrary to what a lot of people believe, I think the vets are wrong more often than not when they are telling how far along a cow is. For the most part I think they can tell you if she's bred or not, and if she is over 90 days bred but that is it!!

From what you are saying, I would think that there is something fishy with your seller. If they are guaranteed bred (to calve in the next 2 months) when you bought them 3 months ago and you have 12 that haven't calved yet, I would call the guy on the guarantee. 1-2 is one thing, but 12 is different!

The 10 that are about 3 months (90 days) would most likely be bred to YOUR bulls, so they obviously weren't even BRED when you bought them, or at least not far enough along for a vet to call them!

 

[cypressfarms]

Deno,

A couple of things jump out about your post.

First, you obviously spent a large sum of money with this guy, buying 112 head, most of them pairs.

Second, you said they were guaranteed 7-9 months bred.

Third, he's apparently avoiding you.


I'd call him or send him a letter telling him that he must "make it right", after all he guaranteed it. The lepto excuse is just that; an excuse. I seriously doubt that a cow could abort a 7 month old calf and rebreed within a couple of weeks. I can't understand why someone who has just recently sold you such a large amount of cattle would do this. His reputation will be severly tarnished. Anyway, I'd hold him to the fire and make him honor his guarantee.

 

[denoginnizer]

Anyone have an idea on what a fair resolution to the problem would be. I was thinking of trying to get the seller to re-imburse me for the difference between an open cow and a bred cow on the 12 or just asking him to take them back and refund my money.
The problem is I spent money on hay and protein to keep these animals over the winter.
If I get him to refund the difference in a open cow it will be hard to come up with the price of a comparable open cow.

The federal agents have been at his farm trying to get him to turn loose of cattle he "took in " from the hurricanes.
There was a big article in the paper on how he was going to help rescue cattle that had been displaced in the hurricane. He rescued them but now says that the people owe him a large amount of money for keeping the cattle. What kinda help is that?

I sure wish I hadnt got mixed up with this guy.

 

[cypressfarms]

Your probably going to come out on the losing end any way you go. If you like the cows that you have otherwise (except the pregnancy), I'd keep them and try to negotiate a settlement in cattle with him. From the sounds of it, this guy is not exactly "pure", so I'd think your chances of squeezing money from him are small.

Deno, don't let the Fed's get him: bring him over here to the people in Texas, Louisiana, & Mississippi that lost everything. I think that they could dish out some justice.

 

[Cobbkid]

I here it is ok to lepto your heifers.. but we dont lepto any cows because of them abortion of calfs.

CobbKid

 

[Double R Ranch]

I here it is ok to lepto your heifers.. but we dont lepto any cows because of them abortion of calfs.

CobbKid

Interesting. Our vet told us to vibrio/lepto everything. Haven't lost one from it. Must be using different vac. :?:

RR

 

[dun]

We vibrio and lepto the cows each spring before breeding season

dun

 

[milkmaid]

I here it is ok to lepto your heifers.. but we dont lepto any cows because of them abortion of calfs.

CobbKid

Interesting. Our vet told us to vibrio/lepto everything. Haven't lost one from it. Must be using different vac. :?:

RR

All the lepto vaccines I've seen are safe for use in preg cows... as long as it's a killed vaccine there's no problems. The reason for, say, Bovishield Gold being labelled for open cows, is due to the modified-live BVD/IBR combo, not the killed lepto.

I use a killed or live BVD/IBR plus killed VL5 on all my cows/calves depending on pregnancy status. Bred ones get the killed, all others get the live virus.

 

[bigbull338]

yes lepto can cause the cows to abort.wich is highly unlikely b/c if they get lepto some cows will die.no matter what you doto dr them.an those that get over it will become carriers.ill bet you a mule those 24 cows wasnt bred.an heres the thing was you there when they was palpated.or did you just take his word for it.i doubt if she will refund your money.an yes you spent a chunk of money.id cull those 2 an live an learn.

 

[denoginnizer]

Just thought I would give the update on the cow situation. The guy wanted to take the cows that had not calved back to his farm. The catch was he said he couldnt pay me for them until after he sold them again. I didnt like that idea , so I suggested that he could just pay me the difference between the price of a heavy bred cow vs the price of a open cow. We agreed upon a 420 dollar differance. I told the guy that I wanted to be fair and I would allow for some error, accident or bad luck . So I only charged him for 6 cows. 6 X 420 = 2520.

He said he wanted to wait until he resolved the open cow issues with the other folks he sold cows to before paying me. I made him agree that he would pay on or before july 4th. I suspect he will never pay me.

Learned many lessons from this. One thing I learned is that I will always have the vet preg check/age any bred cows before I buy them.
Another thing I learned is if someone guarntees something I will put little stock in it unless it is in wrighting .
Finally , I will trust my gut a little more. If a something feels fishy it probably is fishy.