Keeping cross bred bulls. Tips and pics

[OzssieDave19]

 

[OzssieDave19]

Some examples

 

[Muddy]

I would rather cut Char x bull calves. Char x calves sell very well at most sales. But Char x bulls didn't always pass the diluter gene to the offspring so you're most likely get blacks and reds instead of greys and tans. If you're putting Char x bull on Herefords and black baldy cows, you have good chances that you get feathernecks (strong Hereford looks) as the feeders with strong Hereford influence tend to do poor at the sale barns.

 

[Caustic Burno]

HeII of a difference in a standardized composite and a crossbred hybred vigor starts at conception not after birth.
There is volumes of data by every major Ag university on cross breeding systems

 

[cowgirl8]

Some calves from a place near us. This was his trailer load for the sale this weekend, but didnt know it was closed for the 4th....anywho, snapped a shot. These calves are out of his reg char bulls. Just want to point out the consistency when you use papered bulls........ Most of his cows are char crosses. He has a few black cows dotted in his herd of around 60, but most are going to be white or grey cows...

 

[Muddy]

Now that's a nice set of Char calves!

 

[Duramaxgirl]

Some calves from a place near us. This was his trailer load for the sale this weekend, but didnt know it was closed for the 4th....anywho, snapped a shot. These calves are out of his reg char bulls. Just want to point out the consistency when you use papered bulls........ Most of his cows are char crosses. He has a few black cows dotted in his herd of around 60, but most are going to be white or grey cows...

I like the one on the far left. Nice calves!

 

[cowgirl8]

Now that's a nice set of Char calves!

Where is the consistency here? You said a char bull would put out consistent calves. You have horns, no horns, dark grey short hair, black...ears, no ears....Is this what i'm suppose to shoot for rather than

 

[Muddy]

Now that's a nice set of Char calves!

Where is the consistency here? You said a char bull would put out consistent calves. You have horns, no horns, dark grey short hair, black...ears, no ears....Is this what i'm suppose to shoot for rather than

It appears that a char did his job very well on these calves. I didn't see much inconsistency in these calves other than the black calf (it's possible that it's not char sired) and the small calf. Depends on the buyers, nubs may not be a big deal. At least the buyers will know they're Char influenced, unlike many blacks.

 

[True Grit Farms]

Muddy your handicapped? So are alot of us, but we don't use that as an excuse for being stupid. A bull is half of the calf, using crossbred bull is a crap shoot. Just ask yourself why should I use a crossbred bull? And what's the advantages of using a crossbred bull? Being cheap with a bull will cost you $ in the long run.

 

[Muddy]

Muddy your handicapped? So are alot of us, but we don't use that as an excuse for being stupid. A bull is half of the calf, using crossbred bull is a crap shoot. Just ask yourself why should I use a crossbred bull? And what's the advantages of using a crossbred bull? Being cheap with a bull will cost you $ in the long run.

Yes I have a disability so I do not have perfect English like you folks do and many of you folks misunderstood me on many occasions and called me stupid several times on this board. I have hard time to change my language to English .

 

[KR Cattle Co]

Nothing wrong with a cross bred bull from a planned breeding. Many breeds allow crossing with Angus. They are registered animals with EPDs. We have used Balancer bulls for several years and have 4 Balancer bulls running with the cows this year. They have DNA enhanced EPDs. 3 of those are home raised. 2 are EXAR Upshot sons. Quality animals with a known history. Our calves are always uniform. We also have a fairly uniform cow herd. Most are PB Gelbvieh or Balancer. Still have a few of Gel X Char or Gel X Herford. I think if someone has a herd with a lot of different breeds in the mix they may be better off with a PB bull. Picking a pretty calf out of the pasture without a known history is a gamble.

 

[Banjo]

Just another point a train wreck to me is people dying and bent metal. Some stupid kid with 8 cows trying to have some fun is just that. Lets not all disapear up our own asses.

I like it. :clap:

 

[lithuanian farmer]

Have used AngusX bull out of 3/4Charolais cow in a commercial herd. There are a few breeds in the herd, so the calves were quite different too. Some had very good growth, some avarage, some had more meat than usual calves from their dams, some were pretty simmilar. However he worked pretty well for us. Have left all his daughters as replacements -9 in total. All had their first calves last autumn. All calved on their own and had plenty of milk.
My thread with that bulls calves.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=86141
Thread with that bull's daughters.
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=99861

I'd say that the most important things are to know bull's breeding well and to know your cows well too.
If it's just for an experiment when go ahead, but if you want more profit when you need to consider everything and think if your choice will pay back.

 

[creekdrive]

I'd say that the most important things are to know bull's breeding well and to know your cows well too.
If it's just for an experiment when go ahead, but if you want more profit when you need to consider everything and think if your choice will pay back.

I think Lithuanian farmer said it pretty well. There was a few others too who brought up good points, but this was the most recent so I used it.

My husbands family has occasionally kept a home raised crossbred over the years. I would definitely NOT go out and buy a crossbred bull from anyone, but if you are using your own and know the family history it can work out quite well. The way nesikep is doing it for example, I don't see anything wrong with that. He has a plan and it will either work out good or it won't, but it's still a plan. So far it seems like it will work out good for him.

We currently have a crossbred bull (mostly Angus with a touch of Sim). We've used him every year since 2012 and have been quite pleased with his calves. The last 3 years he's been at our home pasture with a total mish-mosh of cows and his calves are surprisingly consistent. The idea using this bull was to keep daughters based on how good his dam was. He has a couple daughters that have calved this spring and next year there will be a fairly big group of daughters calving and we'll begin to see if it was a good choice or not.

a picture from last year as 4 yr old

all of those calves are his. Other than the black one (who is smaller and not growing as well as it probably should be) they are a pretty even group of calves. A few different shades of red, but they all have the same type.

more calves

 

[elkwc]

I'd say that the most important things are to know bull's breeding well and to know your cows well too.
If it's just for an experiment when go ahead, but if you want more profit when you need to consider everything and think if your choice will pay back.

I think Lithuanian farmer said it pretty well. There was a few others too who brought up good points, but this was the most recent so I used it.

My husbands family has occasionally kept a home raised crossbred over the years. I would definitely NOT go out and buy a crossbred bull from anyone, but if you are using your own and know the family history it can work out quite well. The way nesikep is doing it for example, I don't see anything wrong with that. He has a plan and it will either work out good or it won't, but it's still a plan. So far it seems like it will work out good for him.

We currently have a crossbred bull (mostly Angus with a touch of Sim). We've used him every year since 2012 and have been quite pleased with his calves. The last 3 years he's been at our home pasture with a total mish-mosh of cows and his calves are surprisingly consistent. The idea using this bull was to keep daughters based on how good his dam was. He has a couple daughters that have calved this spring and next year there will be a fairly big group of daughters calving and we'll begin to see if it was a good choice or not.

a picture from last year as 4 yr old

all of those calves are his. Other than the black one (who is smaller and not growing as well as it probably should be) they are a pretty even group of calves. A few different shades of red, but they all have the same type.

more calves

A good set of calves. Really like the bull. It amazes me that some of the same ones who think it is ok to use a pb bull on crossbred cows then say a person shouldn't use a crossbred bull even on pb cows. We purchased a Balancer bull last year. Many breeders know more about the dams behind their crossbred bulls than I do him. Like I said before just because you call a crossbred by a specific name doesn't make him any better. Again I like your 4 y/o bull and bet his daughters do great.

 

[Nesikep]

The other thing is money... If I buy a PB bull for $5K and get about 100 calves from him and sell him for 2K, each calf costs me $30 just on bull 'depreciation'.. (never mind the feed, that's common to any bull) If I keep one of my own, he costs me the price of a steer ($1,000), and I also sell him for $2000 when I'm done with him, the growth I put on him goes back into my pocket.. So if my calves are a little less consistent and I lose $40/calf due to that, it's made up with the money saved on the bull... Keeping replacements, well, that can go either way on quality depending on what you start out with.

Creekdrive.. I really like the tag on the nearest steer "PEST".. Hmm.. I wonder what that means!

 

[djinwa]

Just another point a train wreck to me is people dying and bent metal. Some stupid kid with 8 cows trying to have some fun is just that. Lets not all disapear up our own asses.

Why did you ask the question? You don't have to get permission from the internet to have fun.

 

[ANAZAZI]

It amazes me that some of the same ones who think it is ok to use a pb bull on crossbred cows then say a person shouldn't use a crossbred bull even on pb cows.

There is a difference. It is a very important difference. A crossbred calf will exibit hybrid vigour, generally this vill give it more growth. A crossbred cow will also exibit hybrid vigour, it will give her better fertility, longevity and more milk, she will give more growth to her calf than a purebred cow can.

A calf benefits from being crossbred. It benefits from having a crossbred mother. IT DOES HOWEVER NOT BENEFIT FROM A CROSSBRED FATHER, it does not matter for hybrid vigour if the bull is crossbred or not.

There is a way of benefitting fully by crossing three breeds: two maternal breeds are crossed to produce the cow and a third breed, a terminal, is crossed on that cow for feeder calves.

If you have to choose between full hybrid vigour in the cow or in the calf, it is more important to have it in the cow, with a calf that gets full benefit of a crossbred mother and half the benefit from being crossbred himself (hybrid vigour is halved by the fact that his father has the same breed as one of the mothers parents).

Put a crossbred bull on a purebred cow of a third breed, the calf gets the same hybrid vigour it would have gotten with a purebred sire on a purebred cow of a different breed.

Put a crossbred bull on a purebred cow of the same breed as one of his parents the calf gets half of full hybrid vigour, with a mother that has no hybrid vigour.

Do you see the difference?

 

[creekdrive]

Creekdrive.. I really like the tag on the nearest steer "PEST".. Hmm.. I wonder what that means!

That's a heifer calf. ;-) Pest (the cow) is pretty special. Not because she is a great cow, but she is really more of a pet than a cow. She's totally impossible to work around (hence the name Pest). When sorting cows the best solution is to just bait her out into the yard before you do anything else and let her roam, otherwise she is always in the way wanting attention. Call her name and show her the gate is open and she'll gladly come to you. Her hip has been bothering all last winter, the old girl seems to be getting around pretty good on pasture though. Thought she might have to turn into a yard cow, but she can move pretty quickly when she wants to. She will be one of the very few that will die here at home.

Here is Pest. This is from 2 summers ago, but that's about how she still looks.