Keeping cross bred bulls. Tips and pics

[Caustic Burno]

It can be done, you just have to know what you're doing.

:shock: :shock: :shock:

Yep just sit and wait for what anomalies fall out of that woodpile

 

[Rafter S]

It can be done, you just have to know what you're doing.

There are lot of things in this world that can be done. That doesn't mean they should be done.

 

[Nesikep]

I wouldn't recommend doing it out of wildly different breeds.. Dairy/beef crosses, spotted/black/white etc.

With Charolais in the mix, you may or may not get the color diluter gene, and you'll get all sorts of "off" colors (Mouse grey?)

Here's one I kept, I am liking his calves so far, but should be bred to solid-red cows

This spring at 2 years old (and he's grown a whole lot in the last 3 months)

He bred cow that had identical markings to him.. and I got this.

Not what I'm looking for in coloration, but he's built very well. So this year that bull is only breeding solid-colored cows (Brockle faces seem to work alright with him)

This was his full brother I sold.. I liked him better actually (they're both Gelbvieh, Shorthorn and Saler)

Here's a close brother Hector (same sire, grandsire and granddam) that I also sold to a friend, he's very happy with him, 4 years old in the picture and has made surprisingly consistent calves

Here's the sire of all 3 of them, Arnold, PB Gelbvieh

Some people here seem to be he|| bent on calling any homeraised bull a train wreck.. I don't think that's right, but you can't make a silk purse from a sows ear

 

[cowgirl8]

Lets say, like a bunch of you fellas, i buy my cows from a sale barn. Then, out of those cows i decide to keep a bull calf because, dang he's a nice looking calf. Now, i agree, that would be stupid. Who the heck knows whats in those calves, dang that nice calf could be half longhorn and we know what happens if you have longhorn in the 'woodpile'.
What if you had cows like a lot of you guys and you buy a beefmaster bull? I bet he'd be waving those ever so important papers. What would you get if your cows are mongrels and are bred to a beefmaster? First off, where is the 1/2 hybrid vigor?
I've seen a lot on here get one nice bull calf and wonder, should i keep him as a bull. I believe that its rare to get a good herd bull out of a selection of under say 50. Yeah, maybe one will pop out, but there are a lot of factors to consider.
SInce we have multiple herds that are separate and have for many years, we've been able to compare reg bull herds calves to home grown bulls calves. And consistently, the home grown calves have grown better and sell just as good. This hasnt been over the last couple years, its been over 30. So yes it can be done, but its not for everyone.

 

[Ebenezer]

I've seen a lot on here get one nice bull calf and wonder, should i keep him as a bull. I believe that its rare to get a good herd bull out of a selection of under say 50.

This is the problem of hodge podge, bull of the month, herd prefix fixation breeding programs. Get a decent and environmentally fit cow base, use AI bulls that complement, are well proven or are extremely similar to the cows or use home raised bulls and it will not largely matter which bull calf you keep except for matters of avoidance of strong inbreeding. But this is a small part of modern purebred programs as many have moved away from the old proven ways for 100% trust in number breeding.

 

[JMJ Farms]

Hey here is a different sort of question.

I have some good Black Baldy heifers joined to a lbw Char.

Anythoughts on keeping a crossbred bull to put on future heifers?

Another question anyone reared a fresian beef cross calf and used that as a bull?

I have this funny idea of rearing a bull one way or another getting the cows in calf then selling it fat.

Pics and your tips appreciated.

Probably the best cross I've ever used for mashing the scales. I would THINK that by putting a crossbred bull on heifers on this cross you would be going backwards. But I could be wrong.

 

[Muddy]

Mongrel bulls has their place, but many buyers preferred uniformed groups which brings bigger paycheck to the sellers. I've seen nice mongrel bulls on here, producing nice calves but they're just lacking of uniformity. Cowgirl8 was able to get away with mongrels and lack of uniformity because she has numbers on her side.

Purebred bull on mongrel cows tends to have more uniformity in the calf crop than mongrel bull on mongrel cows.

 

[angus9259]

Just do see what i got.

I think this is the issue at hand. Ken asked a valid question for which, it seems to me, there should be a commercial response or reason. As Ebenezer has said, if you don't care what you get, then who cares what you do?

Duramaxgirl is using a 75% angus 25% hereford bull which technically is a "crossbred" but seems as though it would have some known heritage if you know the percentage to that degree and could provide some valuable, predictable offspring especially if used over some purbred cattle of known decent. So it also depends on how you term "crossbred".

We also through around this word "train wreck" frequently on these boards - we're a very dramatic group . You may have to pull some calves - especially on heifers - you may not. Odds are, it won't be a train wreck if you do any homework at all. "What you'll get" is some calves. As ebenezer has said - colors and sizes and horns and coats may vary - doability and fattening capacity may vary - but that's what you'll get - some calves. Perhaps a dead cow or two - but they won't all die.

 

[cowgirl8]

Mongrel bulls has their place, but many buyers preferred uniformed groups which brings bigger paycheck to the sellers. I've seen nice mongrel bulls on here, producing nice calves but they're just lacking of uniformity. Cowgirl8 was able to get away with mongrels and lack of uniformity because she has numbers on her side.

Purebred bull on mongrel cows tends to have more uniformity in the calf crop than mongrel bull on mongrel cows.

This is where it works for some and not others. If you buy your cows from a sale barn to grow your herds, then, unless those cows come with papers, you need stick with pure bred bull.....But, if you know what you have in your cattle, say us for instance where we've been working from sim to angus, we know that our cows are a combo of the two. So, any bull we keep will be sim/angus bred to sim/angus cows. There is no char, there is no longhorn, there is no Brahma....What our plan is now that our younger cows are now almost all angus, is now add to the mix with reg bulls of another type. Our homegrown mixed bulls have had their place in our operation and now that we've gotten our cows where we want them, now on to the next phase of our ranch. And to your delight, a place we're baling right now the owner has offered up a 'highly' sought after char bull yearling..............oh god.. Not my idea, husband is pondering. But then, most here say you get a hit on a grey steer at the sales...so, i'm against it. I want black hereford...

 

[Jessica06]

If you want to go terminal I'd go black charolais waaaaay before I went black Hereford.

 

[sim.-ang.king]

The great and powerful Oz has spoken!

 

[Muddy]

No Brahman? I call bullshyt on it. :bs:

But have fun with add more breeds in the mix.

PS I think a char bull is much better choice than a black Hereford.

 

[Red Bull Breeder]

Muddy you calling Bull is meaningless, you full of it yourself.

 

[Muddy]

Muddy you calling Bull is meaningless, you full of it yourself.

Says by an old grump that downgrading disabled people.

 

[cowgirl8]

If you want to go terminal I'd go black charolais waaaaay before I went black Hereford.

Our daughter bought some black Hereford bulls several years ago and has the same type cows we do. She's getting some nice calves.

 

[JMJ Farms]

I just swapped my Charolais for a black limo. On the other herd I run a Hereford. The Hereford makes nice replacements but for terminal he can't compete with the char or limo.

 

[etmountianman71]

Without throwing gasoline on a fire:
I have few questions for the "gurus" who oppose crossbred or new breeds and people who have them.

1. Are all full bred cattle of the top breeds (kind of like cars or tractors) the only way to manage a herd of cattle?
2. Have you never seen a full breed animal that does not live up to the breed like in the big sale catalogs propose?
3. If so does that mean that the entire breed can be judged on that animals pedigree or looks?

 

[u4411clb]

Using crossbred bulls depends allot on who you are. Similar to one person being crazy if they are poor and eccentric if they are rich. If you are willow oaks in Tennessee you can top the market with Chi Angus bulls of different percentages and the feedlots love their cattle. If you are a big time Sim Angus breeder like a place I will go to in August to their sale you will see everything from pure bred Angus to purebred Simm and everything in between from 50/50 Angus/Simm to 5/8-3/8 both ways. And their prices will not take a back seat to anyone. Big time guy in my area uses Lim Flex bulls on hereford cattle and his calves compete with anyone when he takes his black baldies to the sale barn. But all these are experienced big time cattle men so they are on the eccentric side. If you raised a sim-Angus or Lim-Flex or Chi-Angus bull of your own without the name you may be considered crazy. Results may vary.

 

[OzssieDave19]

Ok. So thanks for all the feedback. Let me expand. On a few things.

A black baldy cow 50% hereford 50% angus is a great hardy milking well tempermented cow. I would hope we could all agree on that.

I was wondering if a put a char bull to these cows and got a grey or white or grey baldy type calf and kept it for a bull. And used it on other cows that were angus or blackbaldy or hereford the calves would produce beef. What would be the harm.?

No i wouldnt be selling a straight breed (a brand) but i would be selling beef. If i kept the calves until they were prime they would sell as prime cattle always sell.

I was wondering if anyone else had done this? I would have some composite/cross bred cattle that would be ok cattle.

Forget the question about the fresian cross calf yep that is a bit dumb but focus on the first part.

I am just interested in thinking outside the square and cutting costs on beef production. A low birth weight bull and a low birth weight cow shouldnt produce a cow killer in regard to calving ease.

 

[OzssieDave19]

Just another point a train wreck to me is people dying and bent metal. Some stupid kid with 8 cows trying to have some fun is just that. Lets not all disapear up our own asses.