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Johnes FREE!!

angus9259

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Did blood work on the whole herd and found no other cases of Johnes.

One cow did come up BVD PI though . . . the dam of the "dumb calf" that died a day after birth. Can BVD cause that?
 

rockridgecattle

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Congrats on the Johne's free!

BVD PI can cause alot of health issues. Finding one is sad, but only one is good. Now that she does not have a calf, good reason to ship ASAP. Less dead weight the better

BVD can cause alot of things, one is a calf with no will to live, a weak calf.
 

bigbull338

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yes BVD can cause cows to slump calves.it can cause stillborn calves.as well as weak calves that die soon after birth.id cull that cow now.an vacc your cows an heifers for BVD.
 

angus9259

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bigbull338":24b4t8nt said:
yes BVD can cause cows to slump calves.it can cause stillborn calves.as well as weak calves that die soon after birth.id cull that cow now.an vacc your cows an heifers for BVD.

Yup. We're going to do a confirmatory test and cull her if she's bad. I vacc everyone for BVD yearly and tested everyone this year when we tested for Johnes. Everyone else is clean.
 

KNERSIE

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angus9259":20czvx1j said:
bigbull338":20czvx1j said:
yes BVD can cause cows to slump calves.it can cause stillborn calves.as well as weak calves that die soon after birth.id cull that cow now.an vacc your cows an heifers for BVD.

Yup. We're going to do a confirmatory test and cull her if she's bad. I vacc everyone for BVD yearly and tested everyone this year when we tested for Johnes. Everyone else is clean.

In the meantime quarantine her, personally I would just get rid of her anyway since she isn't contributing anything this year and keeping her just isn't worth the risk.

Once the herd is clean you can only test the calves annually and if they all show up clean you can safely assume the cows are clean. If one shows up as a PI calf, you test its dam, granddam, etc. and cull as neccesary.
 

angus9259

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KNERSIE":n2oxmmf5 said:
In the meantime quarantine her, personally I would just get rid of her anyway since she isn't contributing anything this year and keeping her just isn't worth the risk.

I will cull her but she's from a high end breeder sale (no jokes please) this fall so I'll get my money back with a confirmation.

I have one more calf coming hopefully tonight and I'll get her into my calving pen for quarantine. How does it transmit from the PI to other cows/calves then? Feces? Air? Everyone's vaccinated.

Thanks for the advice.
 

KNERSIE

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How does it transmit from the PI to other cows/calves then? Feces? Air? Everyone's vaccinated.

Amniotic fluids, placentas, the cleaning process after calving, etc.
 

hillsdown

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I was told BVD was also airborne, that is why in Europe it is practice to set up "wind" fences when a neighboring herd is confirmed to have BVD. :?

Congrats on the Johnes free... :)
 

rockridgecattle

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just about any opening in an animal can shed the virus. Butt, nose, mouth, eyes, peer. etc.
BVD is a virus. When the PI animal becomes stressed, it sheds the virus and lots of it. That is when you see secondary infections or problems. Scours can be a secondary. Pnemonia, unthrifty calves, dead calves, abortion storms. These can be POSSIBLE signs.
When a PI animal sheds the virus, and sheds alot, other cattle come in contact with the virus. Those who have been vaccinated properly have a greater chance of fighting it off. However, when the threshold of the virus reaches higher that what the body can handle, there in lies a problem. When the virus numbers go up, resistance goes down.
When a cow is vaccinated pre breeding with a ML fetal protection vaccine properly, it offers protection to the calf to prevent the calf from getting it if the virus enters the cows body and the cow's immune system is fighting it off.
A cow not vaccinated or vaccinated improperly will not be able to fight the disease. The disease might not show in the cow, but will manifest itself in the calves it produces. Calves that are raised from the infected dam, then become PI calves, always shedding the virus and shed more when stressed, infecting others. Stress can be caused by a number of factors. A difficult birth, not getting the first suck soon enough and going hungry for a bit, scours or fighting scours, weather, feed changes, weaning, shipping, etc. This is why when they go in the feed lot it can cause a nightmare.

Quarantine include all feed, and water. As well it inludes the manure on you boots...clean them after working with the cow...clean coveralls as well. Last thing you need is cow slober on the coveralls fromt he quarantee and then a pet cow come up to you and sniff and lick
 

angus9259

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This is great. So I beat the Johnes, but now a BVD PI cow's calved in my calving barn with the rest of my calves. That might explain why the little calf sitting next to me in the truck right now is having such a hard time staying alive. Unbelievable.
 

rockridgecattle

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Ohhh nooo I am so sorry to hear that.

Get some good colostrum in it..assuming new born

big question

DO you vaccinate?
When? Pre breeding, fall?
ML or killed? Fetal Protection?
If you use ML do you mix up alot and take over an hour to use it? Does it get out side temp hot, in the sun?
Cows and bulls?
With what?
 

rockridgecattle

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More than likely, it's not the PI cow calving in the calving barn but rather the PI cow shedding the virus 9- 6 months ago, within the first trimester of calves pregnancy
 

angus9259

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rockridgecattle":zor2q4e3 said:
Ohhh nooo I am so sorry to hear that.

Get some good colostrum in it..assuming new born

big question

DO you vaccinate?
When? Pre breeding, fall?
ML or killed? Fetal Protection?
If you use ML do you mix up alot and take over an hour to use it? Does it get out side temp hot, in the sun?
Cows and bulls?
With what?

I do vaccinate with bovishield gold ML fetal protection pre-breeding in the spring. I try to keep it cool . . . probably doesn't last an hour. I try to use small samples. Cows and bulls.

These cattle were from a "high end" sale so I'm not sure what they got. I did get colostrum in her yesterday (3 doses by 12 hours) but she was a twin. the boy died earlier today . . . he never actually walked though he tried hard. She was up, but never seemed to suck. She's shown signs of life, but is sliding downhill fast. Bo-Se, tubing, dex, scourgaurd. Hard to say how much work you put into what's probably a freemartin.
 

angus9259

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rockridgecattle":3i30wwa2 said:
More than likely, it's not the PI cow calving in the calving barn but rather the PI cow shedding the virus 9- 6 months ago, within the first trimester of calves pregnancy

that's better. this cows only been here a month. I've petitioned the breeder for a refund. no response to the email yet.

sale barn sales are tuesdays here. she's on the next train.
 

rockridgecattle

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your best defense and least costly is to get these calves posted. If the little one dies. If the other has been cold it should not be a problem. I think. I say least costly cause this will give you an idea what you are dealing with, if this will be isolated with the cow and the rest of your herd, and if there are precautions you need to take to minimize damage to your new calf crop.
The vet is your best course of reaction and action at this time.
If the calf that died is not postable, and this calf is hanging on by a thread.... talk to your vet...if the calf is BVD PI you would probably not want that calf around

Calves are born with zero immunity. There is nothing stopping infection. This is why colostrum is best given within the first few hours of life, sooner if possible. Then again a few hours later.
Colostrum intake or absorption diminished over the 24 hour period.
As well, the more stress at birth, like weather, difficult or long calving, problems mothering up, can decrease the absorption of colostrum.

If you can keep the area the cow calved in isolated until you talk to your vet. Any calf that comes in contact, might not want to keep as a replacement unless the calf tests clean.
 

rockridgecattle

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our vet recommends no animals brought into the herd in the last trimester, and every time i asked her for a few years got a "are you crazy look?!" from her. She also recommends no calves bought to place on cows that lost calves, train wreck waiting to happen, and is ready and near willing to cuff you up side the head if you bring in dairy and have problems. She will help you don't get me wrong, but she sure gives a lecture about how this problem could have been avoided.
Not lecturing you in the least here. Just giving you our vets opinion.
Then again, the hang up the single vet that resigned to raise a family now a part time vet that works from home, has no problem with it.
 

redcowsrule33

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rockridgecattle":16voh25s said:
Any calf that comes in contact, might not want to keep as a replacement unless the calf tests clean.

PI calves are created in-utero during the first trimester. Exposure to the virus after this will cause the disease, not a PI. PI cows and cows exposed to the virus create PI calves in utero. Once the cow herd is clean, test the calves every year. Most labs will pool ear notch samples to keep costs down - they would only test each sample if the pool is positive. I would not keep a replacement until it was tested not because of exposure as a calf but because you have had it on your place, it can persist in the environment for awhile, and no vaccine is 100%.

Testing will also increase the value of your calves at the stockyard. But what to do with a PI calf is an ethical controversy. Personally, if you have one, I would put it down. Can't keep it (Typhoid Mary) can't sell it with the test result advertised (who would want it) can't sell it without the test result advertised (giving your problems to others).
 

CKC1586

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Jeesh, you're having a time of it this year! Glad that the Johnes out come is good...sorry about the BVD thing.... hang in there.
 

rockridgecattle

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redcowsrule33":3k13tr10 said:
rockridgecattle":3k13tr10 said:
Any calf that comes in contact, might not want to keep as a replacement unless the calf tests clean.

PI calves are created in-utero during the first trimester. Exposure to the virus after this will cause the disease, not a PI. PI cows and cows exposed to the virus create PI calves in utero. Once the cow herd is clean, test the calves every year. Most labs will pool ear notch samples to keep costs down - they would only test each sample if the pool is positive. I would not keep a replacement until it was tested not because of exposure as a calf but because you have had it on your place, it can persist in the environment for awhile, and no vaccine is 100%.

Yes I agree but a calf infected post calving who gets the disease, will shed the virus continuously and even more while under stress, causing PI calves the following breeding season
 

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