I've got 40k and a desire...

[futurerancher]

Thanks for all the reply's, i really appreciate them. As for the father in law thing, it is not a bad relationship, he just doesn't want to let go and will literally die on the farm someday. There is nothing wrong with that I guess but his estate will jest get divided up and sold by my wife's sisters. I guess it is what it is.

I agree that the midwest is where we will likely end up. Probably somewhere in Nebraska, Kansas or Oklahoma. We are fairly mobile and not necessarily tied to one spot so we will look for the best possible deal. With ranching being all the rage right now, has anyone ever used a private investor to help finance the aquisistion of land? I know it sounds weird, but I am willing to sacrifice and toil the rest of my life to pay off a good chunk of land so that my children, and their chilrden will have opportunity. If they choose not to farm that's all right, at least they will have a place to hunt, ride 4-wheelers or whatever. Access is becoming more and more limited and I really feel like I would like to put a stake in the ground somewhere. Anyways, thanks for the pm's that have been sent. Since this board encompasses the whole united States, where are land prices the most reasonable right now? Sounds like Oklahoma is a winner so far. Since we will have to supplement our income with the wife's job, it will be important to be somewhat close to a population base that is stable. Most likely a city that is at least 7000 or so. My wife doesn't really want to drive an hour to work everyday so we are looking at buying land within a 30 mile radius of said town. Of course, that will put things at a higher premium I am sure. If we could pick anywhere to move it would be Lewistown, MT as we really like the area. I just don't see anyway that we could make a go of it there with the insane land prices.

 

[marksmu]

You can get a lot of land, at a very cheap price if you goto east Texas, or Western Louisiana. There are multiple places within a 1 hour drive of Houston, Shreveport, Lake Charles, etc with land prices under $2000/acre on smaller tracts <100acres. Just dont go north or west of Houston...its all pricey there b/c what we call the "hill country" has gotten very trendy.

To give you a perspective, we bought our place, 768 fully fenced & cross fenced acres 55 miles from Houston, with a barn and 1200 sqft apartment, 2 90hp tractors, batwing, generator, tools, furniture, washer dryer, everything you really need for less than $800,000...of course I have found plenty of new "needs" since then, but I COULD have lived without them...I just didnt want too.

 

[Running Arrow Bill]

Several comments, etc.:

Definitely don't quit day job unless you have steady royalty, inheritance, etc., regular income.

Choose a location that you can feel comfortable in from WEATHER standpoint. The more "nasty" weather the place has, the more hardships you will experience with livestock. Look up historic weather info on NOAA or other govt. site.

Choose a location within easy commute in bad weather for your day job. Also, access to location that has yours (and alternate) source of employment.

Acquire place with acceptable infrastructure already in place (if possible) and modify it as time/money allows to function with your livestock: Need excellent perimeter fencing. Also, you'll need corral & working area and loafing sheds (or) natural shelter breaks for livestock.

Consider locating in a small town with strong agricultural base & people. Stay away from the "urban farm" settings that in time can be encroached by expanding "city" and/or neighbors that "do not understand" livestock operations. Also is very important to be within "commuting distance" of a good large animal Vet...you'll need one for sure...we all do.

You need a good and reliable source of water (preferably not "coop" or city water which can get expensive to "buy"). Good well is Godsend. Pasture land that is not overgrazed or overrun with weeds and other trash.

Fencing, infrastructure can cost a lot of money. Even if your do all work yourself. Always have infrastructure in place be before bringing in livestock.

Good luck with your search and plans!

 

[dun]

In addition make sure there is at least one and preferably more LA vets that are willing to deal with small herds.

 

[Ryder]

If you hate teaching you owe it to your self and to the students to get out of it.
But I think you would be better off to keep your 40K and find another job. Even if you have to go back to school or get some sort of training to make yourself marketeable.

Sinking all of your money into ranching with nothing to fall back on other than your wife's anticipated job is a disaster waiting to happen.
Let's play a little "what if". What if she finishes school, goes to work, and finds that she hates her job as much as you do? "Sorry honey, you have to work to keep things going. We have no money because we sunk evrything into this place and it will be years before we actually make any money." See what I mean?
This is just one of numerous possible scenerios you have not accounted for.

40K is no money at all to go into full time cattle business big enough to make a living. In my opinion, you don't have the resources at this time to make that dog hunt. Better keep that money. You may well need it later.

Finding another job that you like is your most important thing right now. As has been suggested, get a job and with both of you working, try something with cattle, but start real slow and real small.
I understand your dreams and desires, but you have to be realistic and work toward those things.

 

[futurerancher]

oddly enough, it is not the kids that make me want to get out of teaching, being with them is great. It is the adults and not just the parents that have sucked the life and desire out of the job. I agree with all of you that it doen't make sense to just go for it. However, my favorite quote of all time is from Teddy R.

Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure, than to take rank with those poor ; spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in the grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat.

There are several variations of that quote. So what is the worst thing that can happen to us? My wife and I are both educated and resiliant people. Lets say we make a go of it and fail within five years. We have lost five years in a failed business venture. At that point we pick up the pieces and begin new careers. People fail all the time, all I am asking for is a chance to succeed.

 

[jerry27150]

check your gov. offices, they have programs to help young farmers get started. i think some even have lists of older farmers who want some one to take over their operation & work a deal to buy for less money to keep their place in farming

 

[1982vett]

Lets say we make a go of it and fail within five years. We have lost five years in a failed business venture. At that point we pick up the pieces and begin new careers. People fail all the time, all I am asking for is a chance to succeed.

You need a horizon that is farther out than 5 - 10 years. You need to look as far out as to the day they plant you and your wife. $40,000 plus lost income thrown down the toilet in the next 5 years will put a huge dent in your ability to enjoy life later on.

 

[S B Knap]

Im not going to give you another another opinion on what you should do with your life or how much you should spend on a new tractor but I will tell you how I would do this if I was the one doing it.

There is enough land for sale between 300-700 an acre in numerous states you should be able to find plenty. Find a realestate website and do a search criteria for land. I dont know whats more improtant to you. Acres or amount of cows per acre? Decent grass land between Montana, wyoming, the dakotas, nebraska, western kansas, eastern colorado, new mexico, oklahoma, texas.

Find land for sale in the price you want. These search results will tell you what land is going for in that area. Look up towns in the surronding area. Call some reaitors. Do job searches in those locations you have found. Narrow you decsions to your personal preference.

Most of the gass land in these areas have a stocking rate of 10-15 acres per cow. If a ranch is what you are looking for you will be able to find it in your price range in one of these states.

I agree with the others that you wont be able to make a living off of that size of ranch but you have a decent start.


Good luck

 

[I luv herfrds]

Yeah stay away from Lewistown, the transplants from the city have driven land prices crazy over there.
Take a look around Great Falls.
Stay away from Helena, Billings and the other large cities. Check out some of the smaller towns.
Look around Fairfield area, they are an irriagated area so the lots are small.

Just a thought concerning the FIL, if you want to stay in that area and take over his place when he is gone, offer the 40k as a down payment to him and a rent to own with him staying on, this MIGHT work if you have your own house a ways away from his.
Yeah I know about those stubborn old FIL had one once too, some things I miss about him and some things I would gladly kick his butt over if he was still around.

 

[upfrombottom]

Everybody has an opinion about what they would do with someone else's money. When asking advice from people you don't know, don't ask them what they would do; ask them how they got where they are and see if that's the road that you would like to travel. Most older people I know have lost the desire to fight it out. The reason younger people are desirable to the job market is they have the desire to be competitive, and very seldom do they second guess themselves. In layman's terms they have spunk.

As we grow older we lose some of that spunk and our desire to fight it out . We will shy away from any form of a gamble because the chance of recovery from a loss,in the time we have left, gets less with age. I know many business people (and this is a business) well into there 70's that still have that desire and will never give-up on a chance. They are the most successful people I know.


There is an old saying : " Beside every successful man there stands a successful woman." To be successful your wife will have to be just as committed as you. You have the best two hold cards in your hand, youth and desire.

P.S.to dun,
Most of the convenience stores that I know of are now owned by Arabs. Please don't judge us rednecks based on that.

 

[TheBullLady]

I sell ranches in central Texas, and we hear from folks like you all the time. The buyers have sure changed in the past 4 to 6 years!

I have to agree.. $40K is not enough to get started in my opinion, unless it's on a small scale. If you like Texas, look at the "golden triangle" area.. Houston, Austin, Dallas. Anything in between these areas will be a good investment, and there will be some good land deals in 2010. 100 acres of decent pasture is going to run you $1400 to $2500+, but generally you can get within 30 minutes of a large town for employment. Keep in mind school districts.. that will also impact the prices.

USDA would be a good place to start in Texas, they have a good program for first time ranchers, and a great interest rate. If you like MT, I don't know that being this far south will appeal to you. A BIG difference in climate!

www.legacyapproved.com

 

[Caustic Burno]

Not trying to sound like a total downer here, but here are my thoughts:

If your $40K is your downpayment, I don't think you are going to make enough to stop teaching. At 20% downpayment, $40K will let you buy a place that is worth $200,000. You aren't going to want to live in a dump, so say $90,000 for the house and $110,000 for the land. No matter where you go, it's probably going to take at least $2000 worth of land per cow per year. That gives you enough land for 53 cows and 2 bulls. And you are going to have to come up with at least $50 or $60,000 to buy the cattle, $15 or $20,000 for a tractor, and at least several thousand more for general equipment (chute, hay feeders, vet equipment) on top of the land and home.

If you are an outstanding cowman and find a place that is fully fenced and ready to operate, you might make $15 or $16,000 a year off of that herd. I cleared a little over $50 per cow last year :dunce: , mostly from cutting expenses to the bone and selling a couple of show steers for $1100 and $1300 at 7 months of age. That probably works out to way less than minimum wage for the hours I put in.

So say $16,000 profit per year. Except you have to pay the mortgage. That's going to run you around $1000 a month. That leaves you $4,000 a year.

Even if you take the entire $200,000 and buy land, you still are only going to be able to run say 97 cows and 3 bulls. That's an income at the very extreme best of $29,100, but more likely in the $5,000 to $10,000 range in good years. And you have to come up with nearly $100,000 for the cattle. And have some reserve for the bad years.

I don't claim those numbers are dead on, but you need to do your own calculations to figure out where you will be. My best advice is to find you a place where you can enjoy (or at least tolerate) teaching, buy you a place with some land, and run some cattle to keep you out of trouble after school.

Good post as I have no idea how someone can start out today and make it pay. I as well made 52 bucks a head in 08 working on the 09 books now to take to the CPA, this year looks to be better. The lifestyle is priceless but you still have to buy groceries and pay the bills.

 

[Texas PaPaw]

Lots of good advise has been given here. You can not do too much research and planning for a venture like this.

Here's a link to a few books that you should read:

1. "No risk Ranching" by Greg Judy

2. "Thoughts & advice from an old Cattleman" by Gordon Hazard

Lots of good advice and ideas in these 2 books.

http://www.powerflexfence.com/catalog01.25.html

Best wishes for all your endevors

 

[Bernard]

Some good advice already given here.
I hate people moving around me, but the Texas panhandle (or, someplace similar) is somewhere you should consider. It has some available land that is more affordable than most, and jobs to keep you afloat until you no longer need need the help. Amarillo is the only "big" city here, and it hasn't been hit hard at all by the "recession". It's still going pretty good. There are jobs here - both for you and your wife. And you'll need both incomes, at least up front. Lots of small towns around Amarillo where the living, and land, is cheaper than most other areas of Texas, or most other states. Not a lot of land for sale, but there have been moderate amounts of CRP acres that came out of the program this year, with more to come out over the next 3 years. A lot of it is owned by people who had it for investment purposes, who don't want the trouble or expense of bringing it back into production - farm or ranch. Most of the grass is Old World Bluestem and that takes some different management decisions from native grass, but is do-able if you play to its strengths and don't try to make it work like native grass. Most of these places are half-section to two section parcels, no improvements (unfenced and without a working well), but the final price usually works out around $400 to $750 per acre, depending on how close to Amarillo it is, if it's on pavement, etc. Water availability around here is tight in some areas, so you need to look at that FIRST when considering any purchase. There are still some FSA funds available for "Young or New Farmer/Rancher" loans at good rates, and might be a way to stretch your working capital. After your wife graduates, see if she - then you, can come up with "day jobs" in some area -any area - where you have a realistic chance of buying a place without having to first hit the lottery. This is key to keep the cash flow going. Then, move to the area, talk to locals, FSA, County Extension, neighbors, PTA attendees, church members, football team boosters, Lions Club member, etc. to find out the real situation regarding making a move to the country. If you're living in one of the smaller, out-lying agriculture oriented towns, so much the better! Nothing, not even experience, tops local wisdom when you're needing to know all the things that you need to know to make the right decisions about getting into some aspect of the agriculture business. This won't happen overnight, but I do see it done around here on a semi-regular basis, and I'm sure there are other areas just as favorable, or more so. Good luck.