Is Untreated Pneumonia Always Fatal

[GotMyHandsFull]

When making my rounds this morning, I noticed a sick calf lying on its side with foam coming out of its nostrils. It's about five weeks old. By the time I went to the barn and got my medicine ready, the calf was up and nursing when I got back. I'm assuming it's pneumonia. However, this morning I could not catch the calf. I tried roping, but the mother took it into the woods. I then tolled all the cows into my catch lane with the promise of range cubes. The mother cow came, but the calf did not. It stayed off in the pasture, ears down and kind of hunched. We've had some weather extremes...eight inches of snow one day, 65 degrees the next, then cold rain for two or three days. That's what makes me think pneumonia. I'm going to try and toll the cows again this afternoon, but I've been in bed myself for about a week and don't have the strength I normally do. If I cannot catch the calf and treat it, is pneumonia always fatal?

 

[Bigfoot]

You could benefit from a dart gun. To answer your question, I'd say the majority of untreated cases, wouldn't make it long.

 

[denvermartinfarms]

I can't say always or not always for everyone. But it seems to always be fatal on my place if for some reason I can't get them cought in time. And like Bigfoot said, a dart gun would save one in this case. I've had one less than a year, but I believe it's a must have to be in the business.

 

[Son of Butch]

No, not always.

 

[Nesikep]

I have not had much problem with pneumonia recently, but years ago we had an atypical summer pneumonia, and it was fatal in most cases, and the few that weren't fatal were debilitating.

I found most things that get a cow or calf off feed is fatal if untreated... They can heal from incredible injuries as long as they don't get infected.

 

[jallen]

Imminent te same boat myself, where can a dart gun be purchased? What about meds that need to be given subQ? With a gun are you just taking what you get?

 

[Bigfoot]

Imminent te same boat myself, where can a dart gun be purchased? What about meds that need to be given subQ? With a gun are you just taking what you get?

Capsure sells a quality product. They have a dart to suit any need you have. It's always my first line of defense. If a calf is already thumping, why put it through the stress of getting it in a chute. If meds are what it needs, just give it the meds.

 

[Nesikep]

dart guns (or bows) do work, but keep your wits about you and don't forget a step like charging them with air first or they won't inject or pop back out...

As for SubQ, you'll take what you can get.

They do NOT work if you have to treat many animals, and they LEARN *real* quick, but for the odd one it can be really nice

 

[jerry27150]

doesn't sound sick to me

 

[GotMyHandsFull]

Quick Update: Was finally able to get the calf up late yesterday. Tolled the cows again and cut the mother cow out and sent her up the catch lane into the pens. LIke before, the calf had not come up, but when mama started calling, it came up to the barn. Through opening and closing different gates, I was able to catch it and move it into the headgate. Treated it with LA300 and sulfa boluses. Glad I caught it when I did. The calf was coughing and hacking, sort of like me last last week when the winter crud laid me low.

 

[kenny thomas]

Quick Update: Was finally able to get the calf up late yesterday. Tolled the cows again and cut the mother cow out and sent her up the catch lane into the pens. LIke before, the calf had not come up, but when mama started calling, it came up to the barn. Through opening and closing different gates, I was able to catch it and move it into the headgate. Treated it with LA300 and sulfa boluses. Glad I caught it when I did. The calf was coughing and hacking, sort of like me last last week when the winter crud laid me low.

I hope you left it and momma in the lot so you can treat it again today with a real anti biotic. If it was gonna die without treating, LA300 wont be very much help at all.
I know of no one that deals with buying calves and getting sick calves that ever even considers giving LA. It is a great product for soft tissue issues, foot rot, and pinkeye but not for any sickness. Sorry for my blunt opinion but look below at my signiture.

 

[skyhightree1]

Quick Update: Was finally able to get the calf up late yesterday. Tolled the cows again and cut the mother cow out and sent her up the catch lane into the pens. LIke before, the calf had not come up, but when mama started calling, it came up to the barn. Through opening and closing different gates, I was able to catch it and move it into the headgate. Treated it with LA300 and sulfa boluses. Glad I caught it when I did. The calf was coughing and hacking, sort of like me last last week when the winter crud laid me low.

I hope you left it and momma in the lot so you can treat it again today with a real anti biotic. If it was gonna die without treating, LA300 wont be very much help at all.
I know of no one that deals with buying calves and getting sick calves that ever even considers giving LA. It is a great product for soft tissue issues, foot rot, and pinkeye but not for any sickness. Sorry for my blunt opinion but look below at my signiture.

I gotta say K.T. is right I stocked up on baytril/Nuflor I will be getting draxxin soon and restflor. I may not need it all but I want to have it on hand for when I do need it.

 

[milkmaid]

Oxytetracycline 200 and 300 work fine for treatment of pneumonia. I know groups with millions of cattle on feed who standardly use LA200 on everything with a temp below 105.

Untreated feedlot pneumonia - fatal in probably 15-25% of cases (not too many studies on it, but that's sort of what I've seen as part of studies that were evaluating something else). The sheep feedlots I've talked to don't treat anything and plan on a 5% death loss. The bigger problem in cattle is the chronics that result from not treating. Those calves continue to cost you money.

Next time take the calf's temp too.

 

[Bigfoot]

Oxytetracycline 200 and 300 work fine for treatment of pneumonia. I know groups with millions of cattle on feed who standardly use LA200 on everything with a temp below 105.

Untreated feedlot pneumonia - fatal in probably 15-25% of cases (not too many studies on it, but that's sort of what I've seen as part of studies that were evaluating something else). The sheep feedlots I've talked to don't treat anything and plan on a 5% death loss. The bigger problem in cattle is the chronics that result from not treating. Those calves continue to cost you money.

Next time take the calf's temp too.

Interesting you say that about la 200. I was under the impression is was junk. For anything other than like feet issues and pink eye.

 

[skyhightree1]

I can tell you from personal experience I lost a calf with pneumonia using LA200 and will not use it again for it. Why use it when they have better drugs for pneumonia? If you like playing with profits and don't mind losing money sure go ahead use LA200 but as for me I want GOOD drugs that are strong I am in the business to make money not lose it or chance it when there is a better way.

 

[Big Cheese]

We use LA 200 for all of our pneumonia cases and have never lost a calf that we got up in time. The only one that we lost was to far gone when we found it. It even knocked it out of a grown cow in about 6 hours when we gave it to it last summer. So on that note there is absolutely nothing wrong with using LA 200 and it has worked wonders for our farm even before I was old enough to know what was going on. However, Nuflor is what our vet uses and Baytril is what our neighbor uses. I believe they are a stronger antibiotic then LA 200 possibly but you get the same effect from all three. Once we finish off our big bottle of LA 200 we are going to look into maybe going to Nuflor but we will probably stick with LA 200. I understand farmers have their own opinions on how they run their farms so I'm not bashing anyone on this just saying that LA 200 has been very effective for us with our cattle.

 

[skyhightree1]

We use LA 200 for all of our pneumonia cases and have never lost a calf that we got up in time. The only one that we lost was to far gone when we found it. It even knocked it out of a grown cow in about 6 hours when we gave it to it last summer. So on that note there is absolutely nothing wrong with using LA 200 and it has worked wonders for our farm even before I was old enough to know what was going on. However, Nuflor is what our vet uses and Baytril is what our neighbor uses. I believe they are a stronger antibiotic then LA 200 possibly but you get the same effect from all three. Once we finish off our big bottle of LA 200 we are going to look into maybe going to Nuflor but we will probably stick with LA 200. I understand farmers have their own opinions on how they run their farms so I'm not bashing anyone on this just saying that LA 200 has been very effective for us with our cattle.

BC
I appreciate and respect your comment but think about what you just said. What does your vet use? LA200 can be bought by anyone at any store. The stronger antibiotics require a prescription in most areas. Its like going in a pharmacy you have Thera flu you can take that will get you better maybe and will take a lil longer or you can go to the Dr. and get Tamiflu. weak vs strong. I think you just made your own argument to get a bottle of Nuflor.

 

[Big Cheese]

I understand what your saying and that's why we are going to look into maybe making the switch. Its hard to get Nuflor around here except from the vet that I know of. We only get it if the pneumonia comes back after we treat with LA 200 which has only happened once. Our vet told us LA 200 was fine to use and it will be effective. You look at the doses your suppose to give of each and the difference in the 2 is you give less of one. Our vet gave us 5 CCs of Nuflor for about 1 month old calves and I actually think LA 200 is the same but I usually draw up 6 because that is the size of the syringe we usually use for LA 200.

However I think you made the perfect comparison of the two. LA 200 and Nuflor is the same as comparing Theraflu and Tamiflu. It also comes out the same way in buying it. Do you want to just run up to the store and buy the Theraflu (LA 200) or do you want to go all the way to the Dr (Vet) and get the Tamiflu (Nuflor). Time comes into everyones decisions.

 

[skyhightree1]

I understand what your saying and that's why we are going to look into maybe making the switch. Its hard to get Nuflor around here except from the vet that I know of. We only get it if the pneumonia comes back after we treat with LA 200 which has only happened once. Our vet told us LA 200 was fine to use and it will be effective. You look at the doses your suppose to give of each and the difference in the 2 is you give less of one. Our vet gave us 5 CCs of Nuflor for about 1 month old calves and I actually think LA 200 is the same but I usually draw up 6 because that is the size of the syringe we usually use for LA 200.

However I think you made the perfect comparison of the two. LA 200 and Nuflor is the same as comparing Theraflu and Tamiflu. It also comes out the same way in buying it. Do you want to just run up to the store and buy the Theraflu (LA 200) or do you want to go all the way to the Dr (Vet) and get the Tamiflu (Nuflor). Time comes into everyones decisions.

I buy the good drugs and keep them in the fridge so when I need it I just gotta run to the fridge Here my new vet sells the good drugs or will write me a prescription for it you may want to ask your vet about either buying it so you have it or getting a prescription.

 

[dun]

In the 50s we used combiotic and were glad to have it. When Tylan 50 came along it was like a mircale compared to the combiotic. Now we use Excenenel, well the last time we needed an antibiotic (5 years ago) that's what we used.